12-05-2020, 11:59 AM
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#21
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Red Deer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold25
Those people are members of the intolerant left. I value their opinions as much as the religious right when they were telling people that rock music was the work of Satan.
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Actually, those people are transgendered individuals, groups, and allies that understand and accept that calling someone by the wrong name is disrespectful. No matter how you identify, calling someone the wrong name is disrespectful.
Fortunately, most people, including Cecil, are willing to inform people outside of those communities of this politely and respectfully, and most people would understand an honest mistake.
It's not ammo for the "intolerant left". It's a faux pas that's easily avoidable once you know.
__________________
"It's a great day for hockey."
-'Badger' Bob Johnson (1931-1991)
"I see as much misery out of them moving to justify theirselves as them that set out to do harm."
-Dr. Amos "Doc" Cochran
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12-05-2020, 12:11 PM
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#22
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NOT breaking news
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger
It is worth noting even using his deadname is considered highly offensive and transphobic by some people.
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Does this mean we have to remove the credits in previous movies?
__________________
Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire
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12-05-2020, 12:47 PM
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#23
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GirlySports
Does this mean we have to remove the credits in previous movies?
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There has to be some contexts where using the deadname is acceptable no?
For example, IMDB refers to their credited name at the time it was made in brackets. That can't possibly be offensive can it?
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"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity" -Abraham Lincoln
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12-05-2020, 01:04 PM
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#24
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Fernando Valley
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I have to admit when this news first broke I saw a headline regarding Canadian Actor Elliot Page and I was thinking that I didn't realize that Ellen had a brother who was also an actor. As long as he's happier than before with the change that's all that matters.
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12-05-2020, 06:35 PM
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#25
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Calgary, AB
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As with Mina Caputo who I am a massive fan of, I'll respect Elliot Page. Huge respect to anyone who is brave enough to be true to who they are.
Might as well ask this here, have always been confused by the "they" thing.
Is that just because that person does not want to be called "him" or "her"? Is that the main reason?
Doesn't always make sense with me since "they" is usually used for a group or more than 1 person.
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12-05-2020, 07:06 PM
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#26
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamer
Actually, those people are transgendered individuals, groups, and allies that understand and accept that calling someone by the wrong name is disrespectful. No matter how you identify, calling someone the wrong name is disrespectful.
Fortunately, most people, including Cecil, are willing to inform people outside of those communities of this politely and respectfully, and most people would understand an honest mistake.
It's not ammo for the "intolerant left". It's a faux pas that's easily avoidable once you know.
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Married women who get called by their maiden name don't get offended, or find it offensive because their old name was a real thing. What is offensive is triggered snowflakes who try to compel the speech of others. Trying to deny that Ellen Page starred in the first 2 seasons of the Umbrella Academy is like an ostrich sticking its head in the sand or believing the earth is flat.
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12-05-2020, 07:12 PM
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#27
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Craig McTavish' Merkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold25
Married women who get called by their maiden name don't get offended, or find it offensive because their old name was a real thing. What is offensive is triggered snowflakes who try to compel the speech of others. Trying to deny that Ellen Page starred in the first 2 seasons of the Umbrella Academy is like an ostrich sticking its head in the sand or believing the earth is flat.
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You sound triggered. Is it that tough to call someone by their chosen name? Do you still call Ali and Kareem by their previous names?
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12-05-2020, 07:24 PM
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#28
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UnModerator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold25
Married women who get called by their maiden name don't get offended, or find it offensive because their old name was a real thing. What is offensive is triggered snowflakes who try to compel the speech of others. Trying to deny that Ellen Page starred in the first 2 seasons of the Umbrella Academy is like an ostrich sticking its head in the sand or believing the earth is flat.
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Ah, so you're a ####ty person. Got it.
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12-05-2020, 07:39 PM
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#29
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: the middle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muffins
There has to be some contexts where using the deadname is acceptable no?
For example, IMDB refers to their credited name at the time it was made in brackets. That can't possibly be offensive can it?
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A small minority might find it offensive, but to the reasonable population, no. I think actors understand the rules regarding credits.
IMDB will list them what they were credited as, because that's what the credit says in the movie.
Netflix and streaming services can change their metadata easily enough so that when you search for Elliot Page all their old movies come up. But the print of the movie still has the old credit, that's not something that's going to change. Same applies to the Wachowskis and their credit history.
In the end it would come down to the individual and their wishes. For example Caitlyn Jenner wants Bruce to be used when referencing their decathlon career.
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12-05-2020, 08:18 PM
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#30
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold25
Married women who get called by their maiden name don't get offended, or find it offensive because their old name was a real thing. What is offensive is triggered snowflakes who try to compel the speech of others. Trying to deny that Ellen Page starred in the first 2 seasons of the Umbrella Academy is like an ostrich sticking its head in the sand or believing the earth is flat.
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We've located the Jordan Peterson fan.
It's about respect and just doing something simple like calling someone a name or a pronoun that they prefer. It's incredibly easy to do. If your name was Gary, I'd call you Gary. Not Patricia. Because your name is Gary and calling you Patricia would be stupid.
And I believe trans people generally prefer that if someone uses an incorrect pronoun or a deadname, to simply apologize and the move on correctly.
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But living an honest life - for that you need the truth. That's the other thing I learned that day, that the truth, however shocking or uncomfortable, leads to liberation and dignity. -Ricky Gervais
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12-05-2020, 08:34 PM
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#31
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicat
We've located the Jordan Peterson fan.
It's about respect and just doing something simple like calling someone a name or a pronoun that they prefer. It's incredibly easy to do. If your name was Gary, I'd call you Gary. Not Patricia. Because your name is Gary and calling you Patricia would be stupid.
And I believe trans people generally prefer that if someone uses an incorrect pronoun or a deadname, to simply apologize and the move on correctly.
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Deadname is a stupid term. It's a former name. Did your mom try and deny she had a maiden name?
It's not about calling someone by their former name. It's about people getting offended by being called by their former name, which is embarrassingly stupid.
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12-05-2020, 08:44 PM
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#32
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SW Calgary
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That's really cool, by all accounts they're a terrific person. Glad this is making them happy
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12-05-2020, 09:13 PM
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#33
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Craig McTavish' Merkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold25
Deadname is a stupid term. It's a former name. Did your mom try and deny she had a maiden name?
It's not about calling someone by their former name. It's about people getting offended by being called by their former name, which is embarrassingly stupid.
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Why can’t you just call them their chosen name? It unlikely anyone is going to be offended unless you’re using the wrong name on purpose.
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12-05-2020, 10:01 PM
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#34
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownInFlames
Why can’t you just call them their chosen name? It unlikely anyone is going to be offended unless you’re using the wrong name on purpose.
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Are you slow or just illiterate? We've already established that the intolerant left is offended by anyone using people's former names.
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12-05-2020, 10:04 PM
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#35
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownInFlames
Why can’t you just call them their chosen name? It unlikely anyone is going to be offended unless you’re using the wrong name on purpose.
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Actually that's his exact point. Some people DO get offended. In fact, there's a whole segment of people who not just get offended, but try to shame the people using the 'old' name.
If I changed my legal name tomorrow after 40 years I have a pretty good suspicion some people may slip and still call me by my original name. Not to be disrespectful, but your know, because that was the name they have been calling you for years.
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12-05-2020, 10:22 PM
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#36
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Craig McTavish' Merkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold25
Are you slow or just illiterate? We've already established that the intolerant left is offended by anyone using people's former names.
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No, we haven’t. I’m not sure why you’re questioning my intelligence while you do nothing but spout talking points.
Is there a reason you can’t answer my question? Do you purposely call trans people by the wrong name?
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12-05-2020, 10:30 PM
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#37
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Red Deer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold25
Married women who get called by their maiden name don't get offended, or find it offensive because their old name was a real thing. What is offensive is triggered snowflakes who try to compel the speech of others. Trying to deny that Ellen Page starred in the first 2 seasons of the Umbrella Academy is like an ostrich sticking its head in the sand or believing the earth is flat.
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Here's the thing: me, you, and others have been policing and altering our own language since we learned it. Language is evolving. What we say, how we say it, to whom we say it, and when we say it has always been a part of our lives.
Think of the words you could say 15 years ago...10 years ago...and to whom and when you could say them. It's not triggered snowflakes, it's people collectively acknowledging certain terms and phrases are offensive to the people they target or reference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold25
Deadname is a stupid term. It's a former name. Did your mom try and deny she had a maiden name?
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Maiden name is a stupid term. It's a former name....
Quote:
It's not about calling someone by their former name. It's about people getting offended by being called by their former name, which is embarrassingly stupid.
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That depends on context. I know that's too nebulous for some, but basically it depends on intent. If you don't know, the majority of people are willing to forgive and inform. If you know and slip up, the majority of people are willing to forgive and inform. If you're purposely defying, the majority of people are justified in condemning and shaming.
It's OK to be offended. It's how they respond to the offense, and how those people offending respond. Again, it's highly contextualized.
I can't speak for Elliot Page, or anyone in his position, but I can't imagine past accreditation is at the top of concerns.
__________________
"It's a great day for hockey."
-'Badger' Bob Johnson (1931-1991)
"I see as much misery out of them moving to justify theirselves as them that set out to do harm."
-Dr. Amos "Doc" Cochran
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12-05-2020, 10:30 PM
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#38
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Craig McTavish' Merkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason14h
Actually that's his exact point. Some people DO get offended. In fact, there's a whole segment of people who not just get offended, but try to shame the people using the 'old' name.
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My point is this isn’t an issue unless you’re willfully being offensive. If you misgender a trans person you’re likely to be corrected but only shamed if you’re being an ####### about it.
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12-05-2020, 10:37 PM
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#39
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Red Deer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine09
As with Mina Caputo who I am a massive fan of, I'll respect Elliot Page. Huge respect to anyone who is brave enough to be true to who they are.
Might as well ask this here, have always been confused by the "they" thing.
Is that just because that person does not want to be called "him" or "her"? Is that the main reason?
Doesn't always make sense with me since "they" is usually used for a group or more than 1 person.
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They - broadly - is a neutral term for non-binary groups of two or more. It can also be applied individually in certain specific circumstances, though seems awkward to what we've learned.
__________________
"It's a great day for hockey."
-'Badger' Bob Johnson (1931-1991)
"I see as much misery out of them moving to justify theirselves as them that set out to do harm."
-Dr. Amos "Doc" Cochran
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12-05-2020, 10:57 PM
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#40
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownInFlames
My point is this isn’t an issue unless you’re willfully being offensive. If you misgender a trans person you’re likely to be corrected but only shamed if you’re being an ####### about it.
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But that’s not true . There is a group of people who look to shame people for things like this .
I think we are in agreeance - as long as the intent isn’t malicious everyone should be tolerant and understand that a name change MAY result in the off slippage of the old name
The issue is always the extreme on both sides
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