The True Scotsman Fallacy

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by pseudoreality

Not according to various direct quotes of Jesus in the gospels.

https://danielmiessler.com/blog/no-j...at-that-means/

I'm also pretty sure that Jesus referred to gentiles (non-Jews) as dogs in the eyes of the lord.

In that exact same parable, he also referred to Jews as sheep.

The Bible is full of metaphors that can't be taken at face value. If you did, all humans would be sub-humans. There are things in English that were said 100 years ago that would be racial slurs today. I feel like the further back you go, the less we should take things literally.

In the context of the parable, he wasn't calling all gentiles dogs. He was using the metaphor to ask the question; "Is it right to help a non-believer with a spiritual need, when the believers are also asking for help, and there is only so much time to help everyone". The metaphor was asking, "Is it OK to give food to a dog while your own sheep starve?".

The woman ended up convincing Jesus that, yes, you should help others regardless. That if you want someone to be a believer, you should treat them as equals first. That was the lesson of the story.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

In that exact same parable, he also referred to Jews as sheep.

The Bible is full of metaphors that can't be taken at face value. If you did, all humans would be sub-humans. There are things in English that were said 100 years ago that would be racial slurs today. I feel like the further back you go, the less we should take things literally.

In the context of the parable, he wasn't calling all gentiles dogs. He was using the metaphor to ask the question; "Is it right to help a non-believer with a spiritual need, when the believers are also asking for help, and there is only so much time to help everyone". The metaphor was asking, "Is it OK to give food to a dog while your own sheep starve?".

The woman ended up convincing Jesus that, yes, you should help others regardless. That if you want someone to be a believer, you should treat them as equals first. That was the lesson of the story.

So don't do something good because it's the right thing to do, do it because you want something from them(conversion). Nice lesson.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

So don't do something good because it's the right thing to do, do it because you want something from them(conversion). Nice lesson.

I think it's more that if you want someone to emulate a certain behaviour, then you should display that same behaviour.

[troutman]

The true fallacy is that Scotland is allowed to compete in UEFA and FIFA.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by troutman

The true fallacy is that Scotland is allowed to compete in UEFA and FIFA.

Ah yes, the rare "No True Footballer" fallacy.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by GGG

In Acts though doesn’t he appear to Peter with all of the non/kosher food and say that it’s okay to eat and that essentially is saying that provided you believe in Jesus the Old Testament rules don’t matter?

Yes. The quotes pseudo-reality posted all have to do with Christ being the fulfillment of the law. In the old Testament sin was covered only by sacrifice of an animal, whereas the New Testament teaches that Christ's death was the sacrifice for all. That is what it means when he says he came not to abolish the law but fulfill it. So sin still exists, and people will always do bad things. But forgiveness is available through mercy and belief in Jesus (vs the prescriptive sacrifices of the old testament).

There are lots of examples of Jesus saying that the Old Testament law was superceded. For example in Matthew chapter 12, he explains that working on the sabbath is permitted, and both his disciples gather food and he heals someone on the Sabbath.

12 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grainx and eat them. 2 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”y

3 He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry?z 4 He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests.a 5 Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbathb and yet are innocent? 6 I tell you that something greater than the temple is here.c 7 If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’a d you would not have condemned the innocent. 8 For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”

9 Going on from that place, he went into their synagogue, 10 and a man with a shriveled hand was there. Looking for a reason to bring charges against Jesus,f they asked him, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?”g

11 He said to them, “If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out?h 12 How much more valuable is a person than a sheep!i Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.”

13 Then he said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” So he stretched it out and it was completely restored, just as sound as the other. 14 But the Pharisees went out and plotted how they might kill Jesus.j

[afc wimbledon]

I'm confused, so we can have a slave or two as long as we stone gay dudes to death or not? and bacon I need some clear guidance on bacon

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I'm confused, so we can have a slave or two as long as we stone gay dudes to death or not? and bacon I need some clear guidance on bacon

If they're getting stoned to death, then I've been told that means that the weed they're smoking using Bible page rolling papers is too high in THC.

[Nage Waza]

You can take a genetic test to see if you are jewish so it isn’t a good argument.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

You can take a genetic test to see if you are jewish so it isn’t a good argument.

Do European Jews and Middle Eastern Jews share common ancestry

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Yes. The quotes pseudo-reality posted all have to do with Christ being the fulfillment of the law. In the old Testament sin was covered only by sacrifice of an animal, whereas the New Testament teaches that Christ's death was the sacrifice for all. That is what it means when he says he came not to abolish the law but fulfill it. So sin still exists, and people will always do bad things. But forgiveness is available through mercy and belief in Jesus (vs the prescriptive sacrifices of the old testament).

There are lots of examples of Jesus saying that the Old Testament law was superceded. For example in Matthew chapter 12, he explains that working on the sabbath is permitted, and both his disciples gather food and he heals someone on the Sabbath.

I’ve always understood the Bible (both testaments) to be stories and allegories more so than gospel truth. Even if you take that position there is still some crazy that you just need to ignore. Ultimately though there is a core belief - that God gave his only son in sacrifice for our sins so that we could earn eternal life (paraphrasing).

That’s where I have trouble. Jesus may have been persecuted for years but only suffered physically for a few days. God has allows or caused millions upon millions of people, including children, to suffer much worse and much longer. According to the Trinity Jesus and God are one so there was never any doubt that Jesus would return to heaven. So thirty odd years of life and a few days of dying out of eternity doesn’t seem such a large sacrifice that we should all be devotees.

I wish there was a church that focused only on the stories and life lessons from the bible, as oral tradition, and skipped all the deity stuff.

[Dion]

[Maritime Q-Scout]

I started this thread but haven't replied.

Mostly because I wasn't in it for the debate, I made the thread to increase my understanding of an issue I may have misunderstood.

Not only did it confirm my understanding of the logical fallacy; but I have a better understanding of the complications of religious association (for lack of a better term).

This was exactly what I was hoping for when I started the thread (to learn more, and to stop the derail of the US Politics thread).

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by GGG

Do European Jews and Middle Eastern Jews share common ancestry

Yes

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Yes

Is there good summary of the history on how that happened. It sounds quite fascinating.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Yes

From my understanding, the Y genetic material determines ethnicities, and with Judaism traditionally being passed down by the mother, it makes it one of the easier ones to trace.

I think it's fair that like with most modern groups of people, there has been a fair bit of genetic mixing. I should take the test. I always wanted to get one those gold chains with a Star of David on them. They just make you look a little more badass.

A little OT again, but I read on the UN genealogy study that says Bosnian Croats (which is my lineage) have the highest concentration of the oldest European haplogroup (followed by regular Croats and Serbs). That is not to mean they were the first people in Europe, but just it is the oldest group that did form exclusively in Europe. Could have been all those hot dates with Neanderthal girls. Greeks, Dardani, and other earlier European haplogroups are related to those in the ME and North Africa, so didn't form in Europe. I just found that interesting.

[Red Slinger]

At the risk of sounding a little sensitive, there are some modern day nazis that use a similar line of questioning. They claim that European Jews aren't really Jews (Ashkenazi) and the real jews are the ME Jews. They use this to further their claims that European Jews are in a secret, evil cabal to run the world and that, more or less, everything is their fault and they should therefore be wiped out.

I"m not suggesting that's what you're doing GGG just thought you should know.

[Geraldsh]

Don’t you know GGG is KKK creeping up the alphabet, aspiring to be AAA ryan.



Silly Sunday