Calgary Public Transit - Discussion

[accord1999]

I wouldn't worry, based on the Green Line project so far I'm sure they'll inevitably run into budget overruns during construction and end up cancelling the entire river crossing.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Isn't Anthem's Riverfront project going to be smack dab in the way of all of this? The track will have to either squeeze between that building and Eau Claire's parkade entrance, or run right though that Golden Mountain park.

Traffic in that area is already disaster....

And how does the train come off of Center St onto a new bridge? Cut across a lane of traffic? Move both lanes of traffic to the East? Run train co-mingled with traffic street car style?

This would seem to fall under the category of 'hastily assembled compromises'....

[Bigtime]

Well since we are going with the bridge option over the Bow and given that it is going over Prince's island park (yes the more wetland west side) the choice is clear, time for Calatrava bridge 2.0

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Isn't Anthem's Riverfront project going to be smack dab in the way of all of this? The track will have to either squeeze between that building and Eau Claire's parkade entrance, or run right though that Golden Mountain park.

Traffic in that area is already disaster....

Well Eau Claire mall will eventually be demo'd and rebuilt in another form, so the parkade entrance can be relocated. Also since this is a low floor LRV line the stations will not be the bulky type we are used too, and actually could be integrated very nicely into a tight space like that area.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Also since this is a low floor LRV line the stations will not be the bulky type we are used too, and actually could be integrated very nicely into a tight space like that area.

Agreed. Low floor trains integrate nicely and there are good examples of how that could look already out there in operation.

[Torture]

Nice to see the Green Line moving forward. A little concerned about the plan to run a bridge over Princes Island Park and at grade on Centre but I suppose the devil is in the details.

[Lubicon]

Not a fan of at grade along Centre Street but that ship has sailed a long time ago. But rather then run it up the middle of the street I would prefer if it ran up one side and shift traffic lanes completely to the other, at least that way you eliminate having to cross tracks in one turning direction.

Otherwise I'm generally okay with this so let's get this thing started, it's been delayed and pushed back so many times. The bridge over the river is fine but I too am wondering how they plan on landing the tracks onto Centre Street as they approach from the west. Land over top with an elevated section and come down onto the street? Cross the southbound lanes at grade (bad idea)?

Also I don't see why they could not do cut and cover for a tunnel section that lies in Victoria Park. That must be significantly cheaper than boring a tunnel.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Also I don't see why they could not do cut and cover for a tunnel section that lies in Victoria Park. That must be significantly cheaper than boring a tunnel.

Hmm, I thought the plan now is that section is a "shallow tunnel" so it could be constructed via cut and cover.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Well since we are going with the bridge option over the Bow and given that it is going over Prince's island park (yes the more wetland west side) the choice is clear, time for Calatrava bridge 2.0

He's already designed a nice LRT bridge, with a similar curvy path to what's in the proposal. Let's do it.
https://calatrava.com/projects/bridg...jerusalem.html

Hopefully no height restrictions this time though.

[Fuzz]

I remember looking years ago when they first proposed at grade on centre. They do have extra width due to wider setbacks, so they can claim some sidewalk space. But I would imagine this is going to invovlve a full tear up of centre to do that, and possibly relocating utilities. It's going to be a messy area until it is done.


I do agree that it would probably be better to stick it on one side. The west makes sense due to the river crossing, but the east is better for traffic coming and going to 12th ave/4th st which is a good bypass to Centre.

[You Need a Thneed]

I wonder whether it will have to be on the west side of centre street so that it doesn’t have to cut across traffic as it veers away from centre street north of the bridge.

If they want it in the centre of the ROW further north, have the mini tunnel that avoids a 16th Ave level crossing, realign the track to there.

South of 16th, west of the traffic lanes, north of 16th Ave, in the middle.m

The plan for the unfunded north line had mini tunnels under the main crossing streets - McKnight, Country Hills Blvd, etc.

I suspect they will want to go under 16th Ave, even if the line is on the surface south of 16th Ave.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Table 5

He's already designed a nice LRT bridge, with a similar curvy path to what's in the proposal. Let's do it.
https://calatrava.com/projects/bridg...jerusalem.html

Hopefully no height restrictions this time though.

But you're not allowed to look at the resume of an architect and then just choose them, you have to add a ton of cost by giving derivative laden local architects a chance to bid too. You wouldn't want the Sun readers to get upset.

[Bigtime]

Now I'm wondering if there is any possibility in including bike infrastructure on that bridge, it would have to be a pretty low slope, so a much nicer option for folks than braving Centre street or crossing the Bow at Prince's island and climbing the bluff under the stairs.

Calatrava designed plus bike lanes on it? Super trigger warning for some.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Well Eau Claire mall will eventually be demo'd and rebuilt in another form, so the parkade entrance can be relocated. Also since this is a low floor LRV line the stations will not be the bulky type we are used too, and actually could be integrated very nicely into a tight space like that area.

At the pace at which Harvard Developments has gone on the Eau Claire Development...I'd put money on Green Line being built before Eau Claire does. (maybe even an extension to the moon...)

While I'm sure they can squeeze a station in, it's the impact of LRT operations on traffic that's the bigger issue. Don't forget that this intersection has to deal with much of the traffic coming off of (and onto) the lower deck of the Center street bridge which is high volume, especially at peak hours. It also has to move traffic off of the Eau Claire Loop. Throw in higher than normal pededestrian traffic and it's downright messy.

I'd say the City should buy Eau Claire to fix all of this (and to finally do something with that site) but they're short on cash as it is...

(For everyone's reference, here's the intersection in question)

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.0522...7i13312!8i6656

[topfiverecords]

It will be really interesting to see how they handle the Eau Claire stretch and crossing the river pathways at grade.

[Fuzz]

Why would they cross the river pathways at grade? I assume it will look something similar to the 10th st crossing regarding pathways, and will start climbing before them.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Why would they cross the river pathways at grade? I assume it will look something similar to the 10th st crossing regarding pathways, and will start climbing before them.

The bike path section of pathway there is already at a lower grade than where the rail is at 4th avenue. There is also almost a full city block of rise before it crosses over top of the pathway.

In Eau Claire there's probably half the distance and has entrances to Barclay Parade and the parkade for the adjacent townhomes. It would also generate overlook of the new Parkside condos.

[Fuzz]

I just don't see how you can put off the incline until after the pathways. It would end up to steep.

[Rando]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I remember looking years ago when they first proposed at grade on centre. They do have extra width due to wider setbacks, so they can claim some sidewalk space. But I would imagine this is going to invovlve a full tear up of centre to do that, and possibly relocating utilities. It's going to be a messy area until it is done.

Sucks because there are finally some thriving local businesses and restaurants in the area now. The Tigerstedt Block was languishing for so long but the last 3-4 years has come alive.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Now I'm wondering if there is any possibility in including bike infrastructure on that bridge, it would have to be a pretty low slope.

But perhaps it would be more fun (and turn into a spectator sport) if they made it a steep grade, and hosed it down every morning in winter.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I just don't see how you can put off the incline until after the pathways. It would end up to steep.

Why? The distance from north of the pathway and the river edge of the island is longer than the entire west bridge. There's plenty of distance there. A hundred meters isn't going to break it.