2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Nelson]

This year the Flames have depth on the wings to give Bennett quality wingers if they play him at centre. I want the Flames to play Bennett at centre, and I want him to play between either Dube and Leivo or Dube and Mangiapane. I honestly think that Dube - Bennett - Leivo or Mangiapane - Bennett - Dube would be a very good line.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Fan69

Yes 23 year olds just entering prime years are always what they are at 23.
For those that want to trade Bennett you will regret it. Exactly how many home talents do we run out the door because someone else’s project with poorer numbers is ready to break out as far as posters are concerned?

In a league where 18-19 years old are coming in and playing well, yes a 23 year old who has shown zero progress over last 4-5 years won't be a hot commodity.

What other "home talents" have the Flames run out in recent years? St.Louis? sure more than 20 years ago. Giguere? Kipper cancels him out, if theres Giguere theres no Kipper so theres a case of someone else's project with poor numbers became one of the greatest Flames.

More often than not the Flames hold on to their depreciating assets till it's too late, Bennett will join a long list, along with Giordano, Backlund, Gaudreau.

[Poe969]

The crappy thing is what to do with Lucic. Hopefully he develops chemistry with Ryan, if not you have to keep him with Bennett or he's useless. If Bennett Lucic Dube can keep playing like they were, there's no reason to change anything. If things go well, you give him more PP time and see if he gets even better with other top guys.

[kehatch]

Every year it's a discussion about who they are going to put with Gaudreau and Monahan. Not just on the forums, but it seems to make up a bunch of the coaching and GM strategy. Its why we got shackled with Neal and its why Lindholm has spent most of his time on wing.

Gaudreau and Monahan are NOT the caliber of players to build a team around. They are offensive specialists that get slaughtered 5 on 5 when they have to go head to head with the best of the best. A new RW doesn't change that.

What the Flames need to do is give Gaudreau and Monahan the Sedins treatment. Lots of PP time, and lots and lots of offensive zone starts 5 on 5. To do that you need two lines you can trust to take the tough shifts 5 on 5.

The Bennett discussion isn't if he should be put RW on the Monahan line. Its whether he or Lindholm are your best bets to take the second C position (along with Backlund) to helm those two lines.

[VilleN]

I’m starting to come around to the idea of Monahan on the wing IF Bennett can continue a similar level of play that he showed in the playoffs. I’d like to see:

Tkachuk-Lindholm-Mangiapane
Gaudreau-Backlund-Monahan
Lucic-Bennett-Dube
Simon-Ryan-Leivo

It seems as though Monahan’s strengths aren’t necessarily dependent on being a center. He needs to get in front of the net and have the puck fed to him... but, I’ve never seen him on the wing so it could be a disaster like the Backlund experiment.

[Major Major]

I would like to see 1 of 2 scenarios with the flames forward lines.

Balanced approach:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Dube
Mangiapane - Backlund - Tkachuk
Leivo - Bennett - Lindholm
Lucic - Ryan - Nordstrom

Shelter/Load approach:

Tkachuk - Backlund - Lindholm (Heavy minutes)
Gaudreau - Monahan - Dube (Sheltered)
Mangiapane - Bennett - Leivo
Lucic - Ryan - Nordstrom

Ok, so these are not so different... But I love the idea of loading up a line to be an offence driving matchup beast. And I think that line is Tkachuk - Backlund - Lindholm. I know people won't like to see Backlund as a number 1, but he is the best centre we have and areas of his game are elite. He could easily become a 60 point guy who remains one of the best defensive centres in the game. Lindholm could be freed up on this line to play an offensive game rather than feeling he needs to cover defensively for his linemates.

I also like the balanced approach where you spread the top 6 talent throughout your top 9.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Um what? What spreadsheet are you talking about? There are so many logical fallacies in this sentence that the rest of your post isn't even worth reading. Par for the course for you.

LOL

When unable to answer ............dismiss.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Fan69

Yes 23 year olds just entering prime years are always what they are at 23.
For those that want to trade Bennett you will regret it. Exactly how many home talents do we run out the door because someone else’s project with poorer numbers is ready to break out as far as posters are concerned?

Im not even in the "want" to trade him club, but my goodness the mental gymnastics going on about him like he is something way more than he is or has ever shown to be is astounding and, as mentioned above, very Oileristic.

*IF* a deal was to come along that makes the club better/deeper and he is part of things, then yes he needs to included.

As for his role on this club though? He is, at best, a 3rd line C and more likely a winger. That is based on nothing but his past 5 years of playing on this team and what he himself has shown to be. That's not being subjective either. 5 years, 4 coaches, a multitude of different linemates.

Somehow though THIS year will be different? Hopefully so, but really really unlikely.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Im not even in the "want" to trade him club, but my goodness the mental gymnastics going on about him like he is something way more than he is or has ever shown to be is astounding and, as mentioned above, very Oileristic.

*IF* a deal was to come along that makes the club better/deeper and he is part of things, then yes he needs to included.

As for his role on this club though? He is, at best, a 3rd line C and more likely a winger. That is based on nothing but his past 5 years of playing on this team and what he himself has shown to be. That's not being subjective either. 5 years, 4 coaches, a multitude of different linemates.

Somehow though THIS year will be different? Hopefully so, but really really unlikely.

Power forwards often take more time to develop. Maybe some of this is recency bias because Bennet looked like a legit top 6 forward in the playoffs. But what if that's just Sam Bennett now? One of the only exciting questions for the Flames this season.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

Power forwards often take more time to develop. Maybe some of this is recency bias because Bennet looked like a legit top 6 forward in the playoffs. But what if that's just Sam Bennett now? One of the only exciting questions for the Flames this season.

For sure...no argument here.

BUT

He cant play that way during the regular season...at least for very long.

the whistles in the playoffs get put away a little more and the risk of injury when playing balls to the wall is much greater. In fact he was injured during this most recent series.

Beyond all that though...he just doesnt have the IQ nor finesse to play C on a line with higher end wingers. Again, we have seen it attempted multiple times throgh the years under different coaches and various "systems" with the same results. He is better with fewer minutes than top 2 lines typically receive.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by transplant99

For sure...no argument here.

BUT

He cant play that way during the regular season...at least for very long.

the whistles in the playoffs get put away a little more and the risk of injury when playing balls to the wall is much greater. In fact he was injured during this most recent series.

Beyond all that though...he just doesnt have the IQ nor finesse to play C on a line with higher end wingers. Again, we have seen it attempted multiple times throgh the years under different coaches and various "systems" with the same results. He is better with fewer minutes than top 2 lines typically receive.

I'm not advocating top six minutes. Nor am I in the team blew it in developing camp.

But Bennett hasn't really had any time with high end wingers playing center. Most of time up the roster was with Backlund in his rookie year, and on his off side with Gaudreau and Monahan from time to time.

If we're going to suggest the playoffs and ten games is too small a sample size, there certainly isn't a lot of data to suggest he can't be a top six center because we haven't seen it.

With that said ... I'm just happy the guy looked more like the OHL Bennett in the playoffs, and I hope that can continue a bit into a regular season. Certainly not advocating a move up the roster, nor am I digging into a spread sheet.

[AC]

Bennett playing third line centre with Dube and whoever of Leivo/Simon/Mangiapane/Lucic clicks best would be a great find at this point. Just developing offensive chemistry with Dube alone appears to be a huge positive.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm not advocating top six minutes. Nor am I in the team blew it in developing camp.

But Bennett hasn't really had any time with high end wingers playing center. Most of time up the roster was with Backlund in his rookie year, and on his off side with Gaudreau and Monahan from time to time.

If we're going to suggest the playoffs and ten games is too small a sample size, there certainly isn't a lot of data to suggest he can't be a top six center because we haven't seen it.

With that said ... I'm just happy the guy looked more like the OHL Bennett in the playoffs, and I hope that can continue a bit into a regular season. Certainly not advocating a move up the roster, nor am I digging into a spread sheet.

But 4 coaches Bingo....5 seasons....hundreds of practices. All indicate that he is what he is, which is fine. 10 games in the post season don't just erase all that.

Im with you though, glad to see him contributing like he did, i just dont expect it to continue on a regular basis...hence why he should not play higher up in the roster. I think he still has to prove he can even play C on a regular basis higher than the 4th line.

Right now, and using his entire body of work since he was drafted, he is a decent 3rd line RW or 4th line C. Thats ok...need those guys on every team. I just dont understand the ability of some to completely ignore what is and has been, and pencil him in as a 1st or 2nd line C. Thats the Oileresque part of things in my eyes.

If he can earn himself better minutes and position among the forward raks...awesome and what a win for the club. Im just not expecting that to happen nor am I sure he is able.

What would a good season from him be?

10 G 20 A if they play 82? As well as a continuation of slowing down with the offensive zone penalties?

I'll take that. Anything more would be gravy IMO.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by transplant99

But 4 coaches Bingo....5 seasons....hundreds of practices. All indicate that he is what he is, which is fine. 10 games in the post season don't just erase all that.

Im with you though, glad to see him contributing like he did, i just dont expect it to continue on a regular basis...hence why he should not play higher up in the roster. I think he still has to prove he can even play C on a regular basis higher than the 4th line.

Right now, and using his entire body of work since he was drafted, he is a decent 3rd line RW or 4th line C. Thats ok...need those guys on every team. I just dont understand the ability of some to completely ignore what is and has been, and pencil him in as a 1st or 2nd line C. Thats the Oileresque part of things in my eyes.

If he can earn himself better minutes and position among the forward raks...awesome and what a win for the club. Im just not expecting that to happen nor am I sure he is able.

What would a good season from him be?

10 G 20 A if they play 82? As well as a continuation of slowing down with the offensive zone penalties?

I'll take that. Anything more would be gravy IMO.

Haven't suggested any more ... but pointing out he certainly hasn't proven he can't be a center for better players because we haven't seen it.

Honestly I'm equally confused by both crowds.

The ones that want him pushed up the roster, or the other crowd that seems to honestly want him to fail. The playoffs was a source of hope, there's little doubt. I'm hoping it continues and he carves out a solid middle six role.

[dammage79]

Its simple for me about Bennett. Play him at center and expand his role. Thats it. For me I see an opportunity to provide an environment for Bennett to get the confidence higher than its ever been and see where it takes him.

Gullys tenure really sapped the confidence.

He's been a total team player and played wherever they put him but I think it's a pretty simple fix to play him at 3c and see where it goes. And I'm not talking about 10 or 20 games. Run him the full season and do not stray from the course.

Therell be ups and downs but this time don't shut him down when there's downs.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Its simple for me about Bennett. Play him at center and expand his role. Thats it. For me I see an opportunity to provide an environment for Bennett to get the confidence higher than its ever been and see where it takes him.

Gullys tenure really sapped the confidence.

He's been a total team player and played wherever they put him but I think it's a pretty simple fix to play him at 3c and see where it goes. And I'm not talking about 10 or 20 games. Run him the full season and do not stray from the course.

Therell be ups and downs but this time don't shut him down when there's downs.

At the expense of who?

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by transplant99

At the expense of who?

Ryan

[Heavy Jack]

Ryan is already the 4th center behind Monahan, Backlund and Lindholm if you believe Treliving’s desires to slot Lindholm at Center. So it really becomes Bennett at the expense of Monny, Backs or Lindy.

We already know Backlund on the wing just does not work and we also know that Lindy on the wing does work but I can get behind why Lindholm playing center makes sense.

So that leaves Monahan who honestly has never gotten the respect he deserves for his accomplishments as our top center for the past 5 years or so... but maybe Monahan on the left wing taking strong side draws makes some sense?

Monahan - Lindholm - Tkachuk - Scoring A line
Gaudreau - Bennett - Dube - Scoring B line with favourable zone starts
Mangiapane - Backlund - Leivo - Shutdown line
Lucic - Ryan - Simon - Energy line
Nordstrom

If the Flames do finally invest a shot in the top 6 as a center this is what I’d like to see attempted.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by transplant99

At the expense of who?

Ryan, who can move up and down the lineup.

Just don’t move Bennett away from 3C at all.

[Makarov]

I would like to see:

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk
Monahan-Bennett-Dube
Leivo-Backlund-Mangiapane
Lucic-Ryan-platoon

Would give Gaudreau (a) someone with similar elite vision/IQ; and (b) someone to forecheck/retrieve pucks at elite level (both referring to Tkachuk).

Second line would give Monahan more responsibility to drive a line offensively but less responsibility defensively.

Third line could be used as a shut down line.