Alberta Politics Thread v2

[DiracSpike]

You forgot the part about chewing up homeless people into soylent green.

I'm already sick of this strawman fear campaign and the election hasn't even started yet.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

You forgot the part about chewing up homeless people into soylent green.

I'm already sick of this strawman fear campaign and the election hasn't even started yet.

"Hope destroying" was the best one.

[PsYcNeT]

So is "strawman" synonymous with "accurate reflection of party makeup" now?

[chemgear]

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Ladies and Gentlemen, your 2019 NDP election strategy!

NDP has nothing to do with the UCP nominating climate change deniers and bigots. How can I consciously vote for someone who doesn't believe in science, as someone who works in STEM?

https://www.thestar.com/calgary/2018...omination.html

[PsYcNeT]

Well obviously all the big and sensible budget ideas the UCP has successfully floated as part of their thorough and well-documented platform supersedes any SJW concerns you might have about their candidates.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Well obviously all the big and sensible budget ideas the UCP has successfully floated as part of their thorough and well-documented platform supersedes any SJW concerns you might have about their candidates.

The thing that surprises me is that it appears many people just assume the UCP has all of the silver bullets to solve the provincial economic woes and make Alberta great again. Like in sequential lockstep, they will get the economy back on track in a series of magical steps and put Alberta in the black. I have talked to a few folks who are counting down the days until the UCP is in power and will "fix everything".

It's fantasy thinking.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

The thing that surprises me is that it appears many people just assume the UCP has all of the silver bullets to solve the provincial economic woes and make Alberta great again.

Show me someone that thinks this.

[Ducay]

Ford = Trump
Kenney = Trump

and
Trump = Hitler

Vote NDP!

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

The thing that surprises me is that it appears many people just assume the UCP has all of the silver bullets to solve the provincial economic woes and make Alberta great again. Like in sequential lockstep, they will get the economy back on track in a series of magical steps and put Alberta in the black. I have talked to a few folks who are counting down the days until the UCP is in power and will "fix everything".

It's fantasy thinking.

And I would love to eat crow if they were actually able to bring back the boom. But I just believe that in itself is a fantasy. The technology for shale has surpassed the oil sands as an ideal investment. The shorter turnaround, better mobility and lower investment really means it is where the money will continue to go now. Gone are the days of oil sand expansion, it just isnt the golden goose anymore and I don't think there is anything a government is going to be able to do to change those market forces.

The best we can hope for is to get pipelines to help lower that differential to get as much as we can of what is pumping now. Output continues to increase with the projects in place now and we need to maximize that. But companies are not going to flood back in at the current status of the market.

I think Calgary especially is going to vote the UCP back to try and get those towers full of people again, but honestly I just don't see it. I don't see anyone being able to, but again, I would love to be proven wrong.

[TheIronMaiden]

Objectively speaking, what is the current state of the Alberta Economy?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

The thing that surprises me is that it appears many people just assume the UCP has all of the silver bullets to solve the provincial economic woes and make Alberta great again. Like in sequential lockstep, they will get the economy back on track in a series of magical steps and put Alberta in the black. I have talked to a few folks who are counting down the days until the UCP is in power and will "fix everything".

It's fantasy thinking.

Sure, but the government we have had for the past four years has been poor at best on that file. For me you lose any credibility when you're borrowing money for operations, increasing the take in terms of taxes and then still exceeding your spending when you do that! So what are we to do...believe that they've somehow figured this out?

And on the social issues front, it's terrifying to think that the government would out children to their parents, and clearly they have ideas on abortion and homsexuality that I can't support.

I really have no idea how that shakes down because those are two bad choices for entirely different reasons (in my opinion).

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Ford = Trump
Kenney = Trump

and
Trump = Hitler

Vote NDP!

Maybe instead of being a dick, you could just answer my non-rhetorical question.

As someone in STEM, how can I support a UCP nominee who doesn't believe in the science of climate change?

This has nothing to do with the NDP. This is on the UCP. Provide me with a fiscal conservative, socially liberal, Alberta-first candidate and it's a shoe-in. But the UCP has catered to the lowest common denominator but it's my fault for bringing this up instead of blindly voting for terrible candidates?

And now I need to decide between voting for a party candidate I disagree with, wasting my vote on a party that can't get majority, or a candidate that is willfully and proudly ignorant that he doesn't believe in science.

[woob]

It's ok guys, Kenney is working hard in India.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Maybe instead of being a dick, you could just answer my non-rhetorical question.

As someone in STEM, how can I support a UCP nominee who doesn't believe in the science of climate change?

This has nothing to do with the NDP. This is on the UCP. Provide me with a fiscal conservative, socially liberal, Alberta-first candidate and it's a shoe-in. But the UCP has catered to the lowest common denominator but it's my fault for bringing this up instead of blindly voting for terrible candidates?

And now I need to decide between voting for a party candidate I disagree with, wasting my vote on a party that can't get majority, or a candidate that is willfully and proudly ignorant that he doesn't believe in science.

I don't really know anything about the claims made re:climate change by UCP, but for argument's sake, lets assume they are dumb and as bad as you think.

I'm not trying to convince you re:UCP, but as a voter, you're really going to discount an entire party and the other 1000 policies they have over one fact you disagree with? No party will align perfectly with one person, but seems a bit short sighted to use one belief (that literally likely has the least tangible impact on provincial policy of any) and make your decision on that?

Its like last time when all the people who went bat**** over the GS-alliances issue even though it impacts like 5 people per district, meanwhile we've completely glossed over much more important issues as voters.

Even if you're in STEM, there are a whole host of policies and economic impacts that provincial parties can have, climate change is pretty low on the totem pole for provincial politics impacting.

Congrats NDP, we wasted millions/billions of dollars by closing our coal plants early, all while China builds more plants in a month than we'll close in total.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by woob

It's ok guys, Kenney is working hard in India.

As long as hes not actively offending them as some sort of 'Micheal Scott' caricature.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Maybe instead of being a dick, you could just answer my non-rhetorical question.

As someone in STEM, how can I support a UCP nominee who doesn't believe in the science of climate change?

This has nothing to do with the NDP. This is on the UCP. Provide me with a fiscal conservative, socially liberal, Alberta-first candidate and it's a shoe-in. But the UCP has catered to the lowest common denominator but it's my fault for bringing this up instead of blindly voting for terrible candidates?

And now I need to decide between voting for a party candidate I disagree with, wasting my vote on a party that can't get majority, or a candidate that is willfully and proudly ignorant that he doesn't believe in science.

I know, this kinda bothers me too. But I look at it this way.

It's important, but currently, not as important as having a job. I'm looking at a long period of being out of work here. Climate Change is a problem that people who are working have the luxury of looking at. I mean, really, is it going to get fixed anytime soon?? Honestly, answer me the question, will climate change get fixed anytime soon, even if we elect someone who believes in it? While we are waiting for that, will I lose my job, my house, my entire livelihood, everything I've worked hard to accomplish? Second, will the efforts I put into fixing this (in my opinion quite inevitable) climate change make a difference to me if I'm homeless?? If I put that effort in now, but end up destitute, will I be able to work further at the problem in the years ahead?

In regards to the idea that I can't work with people who don't believe in science, I also don't think that's my biggest issue this election.

I'm really, really hoping that next election I will feel secure enough to be able to consider these other problems. I'm just not secure enough this election.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

NDP has nothing to do with the UCP nominating climate change deniers and bigots. How can I consciously vote for someone who doesn't believe in science, as someone who works in STEM?

https://www.thestar.com/calgary/2018...omination.html

From that article here's what the guy in question said:

He also said he does believe in climate change, but doubts the degree to which humans have contributed to it. Kerr didn’t respond to the Star’s request for an interview Wednesday.

That's not a denial at all. So it seems like a bit of a stretch to impugn an entire party as anti science for that. If you don't want to vote for this guy that's fine, or if you think that the NDP will do more to combat climate change than the UCP that's your prerogative as voter.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

That's not a denial at all. So it seems like a bit of a stretch to impugn an entire party as anti science for that. If you don't want to vote for this guy that's fine, or if you think that the NDP will do more to combat climate change than the UCP that's your prerogative as voter.

Your defence is that he isn’t a climate change denier, he merely denies the degree to which human behaviour has contributed to it. So he’s just challenging the findings of scientists who have studied climate change, without providing any real fact based analysis to refute their claims. Doesn’t that support oling_roachinen’s position that there are UCP candidates who don’t believe in science?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Its like last time when all the people who went bat**** over the GS-alliances issue even though it impacts like 5 people per district, meanwhile we've completely glossed over much more important issues as voters.

Shouldn’t we also ask, then, why the the UCP made such an unimportant issue such a big deal?

Kudos to Kenney for coming out and saying no, forget that, we’re not pursuing it. But it’s not just the voters that still want to a continue that unimportant conversation, it’s the majority of the UCP. It won’t happen, thankfully, but it’s worth noting that it’s not just voters that lose sight of things that actually matter.