Special Announcement Coming for March 2 Game vs. Wild UPDATE** Flames retire #12

[Flacker]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Ok Jiri, seriously, what did he say here that isn't correct or stroking his ego? I don't see that at all. If anything I think this proves the point that you just don't like the player because there is nothing bashing anything there at all. Like nothing. This would be like saying Vernon should have his number ripped down because he has said it was harder to be a goalie back then with smaller equipment. You are seriously reaching here.

“I’ll be honest with you: I don’t think I get enough credit for how great a player I really was."

No ego here at all, him and Kevin Lowe would be great buds.

[Geeoff]

I prefer that it's a neutral team. I don't want to think about the time Iginla spent with those other teams...

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

If they make an exception with Iggy they have to do the same for Theo. There is a reason nobody wears his number. Again, your obvious dislike for the player has no bearing on his accomplishments for the team. Chopper was a great player but to say he was on the same level of Fleury or Iggy is ridiculous.

MacInnis isnt on the same level as Fleury???

By what measure?

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I don't know it's obvious what all the fans want. I have no issue with Flames not retiring his jersey. Fantastic player, but he wasn't the best role model or brand ambassador given his behavior during his career. I have 0 issue with the Flames putting a layer of does this person represent what we want the Flames organization to stand for, on top of on ice performance as a factor.

Well I would hope the organization would want a person who spends their after hockey life travelling around speaking to and helping thousands of sex abuse victims as something they stand for.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by transplant99

MacInnis isnt on the same level as Fleury???

By what measure?

By any??? Maybe if this was the St. Louis Blues.

[Flacker]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Well I would hope the organization would want a person who spends their after hockey life travelling around speaking to and helping thousands of sex abuse victims as something they stand for.

If Theo would publicly apologize for some of his past statements, and own them, and be the bigger man, I'm sure the organization would be receptive. I do think the chances of that ever happening are close to zero, as he truly believes he was somehow slighted.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Flacker

“I’ll be honest with you: I don’t think I get enough credit for how great a player I really was."

No ego here at all, him and Kevin Lowe would be great buds.

lmao, you do realize most star athletes have ego right?

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Flacker

If Theo would publicly apologize for some of his past statements, and own them, and be the bigger man, I'm sure the organization would be receptive.

Great, please list all those slights with sources. I will give you one, he was upset he didn't make the team in his tryout. You fill in the rest. Good luck.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I don't really see anything here that speaks to why Flames haven't retired his number. Look up arrogance in the dictionary and you will see pictures of hundreds of HOF athletes across every sport.

For whatever reason, it is personal between Fleury and the team's ownership. It's rather obvious what the fans want.

Not all the fans. I perfectly understand why it hasn't happened yet. As do others.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

By any??? Maybe if this was the St. Louis Blues.

Any?

I have no idea what you mean.

You cant mean offensive or defensive contributions to the team or longevity/games played either.

So again, by what measure are they not on the same level?

[Flacker]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

lmao, you do realize most star athletes have ego right?

The NHL isn't pro football, most respected pros in hockey are modest and don't pump their own tires publicly. If you interview publicly like the Donald Trump of hockey, you can expect not to be in the Hall or have your number retired.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Ok Jiri, seriously, what did he say here that isn't correct or stroking his ego? I don't see that at all. If anything I think this proves the point that you just don't like the player because there is nothing bashing anything there at all. Like nothing. This would be like saying Vernon should have his number ripped down because he has said it was harder to be a goalie back then with smaller equipment. You are seriously reaching here.

He went out of the way to diminish the accomplishments of the Flames most exciting player to make sure people know how damn great he is.
Here's the headline: He's a jerk.
Great hockey player but a jerk.

[Harry Lime]

Billy Smith had his jersey retired in 1993. The same year he was inducted into the HOF, so the Isle sort of had to do it, or look like a bunch of kids on the playground with hurt feelings.

[joejoe3]

Originally Posted by Rando

Iginla starts career wearing #24, then obviously #12.

Gaborik wore #12 with Wild, then #12 with Kings. When Iginla went to Kings, he couldn't wear #12 because of Gaborik.

That is why the jersey retirement game is against the Wild.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

If they make an exception with Iggy they have to do the same for Theo. There is a reason nobody wears his number. Again, your obvious dislike for the player has no bearing on his accomplishments for the team. Chopper was a great player but to say he was on the same level of Fleury or Iggy is ridiculous.

Chooper is a frickin hall of famer. He was certainly at their level.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Any?

I have no idea what you mean.

You cant mean offensive or defensive contributions to the team or longevity/games played either.

So again, by what measure are they not on the same level?

Sure I can or do those not matter?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The Conroy comments were but one incident where Fleury has felt the need to stroke his on ego by criticizing or minimizing the accomplishments of current players.

Here's another one:

“But I see how he plays. And I see times when he does have to be physical, it’s difficult for him. I see Johnny Gaudreau as Cliff Ronning. Cliff played that same style of game, and Cliff almost had 1,000 points in the NHL,” Fleury says. Ronning left the NHL with 869 points in 1,137 games.

“So if Johnny goes on to have a career like that, the Flames would be more than happy. There’s a lot more opportunity in the game for smaller players than there has been at any point. I’ve always said: A big player has to prove he can’t play, and a little player has to prove he can play.”

Fleury says he would be thrilled to see the game open up even further. Goaltenders notwithstanding, who wouldn’t want to watch 10-9 horseraces? To see Gaudreau rack up 212 points? When Fleury is critical of the modern NHL or its players, it’s because he wants the sport he loves to flourish.

“When I talk like this, people think, Oh, Theo’s bitter. No. I played the game at the highest level you can play at. I think I know a little about what I’m talking about,” he explains. “I’ll be honest with you: I don’t think I get enough credit for how great a player I really was. There’s this cloud hanging over my head because of the behaviour at the end of my career. But when I put my jersey on every night, no matter what was going on off the ice, I gave absolutely everything I had to give. Sometime I feel that gets lost because of the other stuff.”
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...small-players/

I give credit that its been a while since he's said something incredibly dumb or arrogant. But this is the stuff that answers why his number isn't up there. Compare his behavior to Iginla's and it is crystal clear.

And no he shouldn't have made the team in his try out. He was too slow. Way too slow.

To be fair that article is from November 2014. A whole month into Gaudreau's career, and at that time he hadn't taken off as a player yet (he had 2 goals and 8 pts in 13 games at that point). So to be fair to Theo at that point saying Gaudreau could have a Cliff Ronning type career was probably a fair point.

And his last comment is fair too and this discussion is another proof point of that. His great career does get overlooked due to the addiction, his personality, and other things near the end of his career.

Prior to Iginla he had the greatest career that any Flames player had in a Flaming C (Toss up between him and #2). His number deserves to be retired, and so did Al MacInnis and the team should retroactively fix that too.

Honestly the fact that Vernon is retired but not Macinnis or Fleury is ridiculous. We should have 2, 9, 12, 14, 30, & 34 in the rafters, with 5 joining them shortly (and if the next 5 years work out maybe 13, 19, 23 too).

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Yamer

First off, I agree that Theo's #14 should be up there someday.

However, Fleury has a fairly established track record of poorly thought out comments and jabs at the Flames organization. I was really disappointed by what he said about Conroy. There's a tangible reason why his number hasn't been retired yet.

That said, Iggy left a metaphorical fart in the room as he left the Flames, too, by nixing that Boston trade at the 11th hour after first agreeing to it.

IMO, neither Iggy nor Theo's transgressions should be enough to keep them from being honored as two of the greatest to wear the Flaming C.

This is exactly how I feel. I also give Theo a bit of slack given his background story. I also wonder if Theo is getting in the way of at least a FAF - asking for a full retirement, asking for some sort of financial incentive (he's not done that well in business and missed out on the big paydays).

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Regehr? I'm a big fan of his and feel he was an amazing Flame. But retiring a jersey (whether Forever a Flame exists or not) should be held for very very special players, and for me Regehr doesn't meet that criteria. He was a very good Flame, but far from an exceptional NHLer.

IMO Reg is underrated here. He was a an elite defensive defenceman, so much so that in the 04 World Cup he was given the shutdown task against Jagr. He was on the '06 Olympic team. Made the 2010 orientation camp. He's gotta be up there in games played for the team too.

Managed to do something Iggy didn't which was find his way onto a cup team

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Chooper is a frickin hall of famer. He was certainly at their level.

So should Fleury. Every respectable media person has stated this. Fleury has more accomplishments and better numbers than many in the hall. Some people like to judge people though by their actions outside the sport, even if they were a result of demons brought on by sexual abuse from his head coach as he was developing. Even though he has turned his life around and he helps thousands he still did those things right?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Sure I can or do those not matter?

Of course they matter...

but as Flames they are basically identical.

Theoren Fleury 791 364 466 830


Al MacInnis 803 213 609 822

So again...what level is Fleury on that Al Mac cant reach?