COVID-19 Vaccine Talk, 2nd Dose

[opendoor]

That one will be good if it pans out, but it hasn't even done Phase 1 trials yet. And I'm not really sure what technical benefit it really offers over other ones, as it's essentially just throwing a bunch of different spike proteins into one vaccine.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by opendoor

That one will be good if it pans out, but it hasn't even done Phase 1 trials yet. And I'm not really sure what technical benefit it really offers over other ones, as it's essentially just throwing a bunch of different spike proteins into one vaccine.

I think you answered the question; strong protection across several coronavirus variants, not just a single one based on whatever strain the current vaccine was designed for.

[opendoor]

But basically any vaccine throw a bunch of different antigens into a dose (that's how many flu vaccines work). Whether it works well and is well tolerated is another matter. I know they're saying that using their nanoparticles makes it particularly effective at protecting against multiple variants, and hopefully that's true. But again, it hasn't even been tested in humans yet.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by opendoor

But again, it hasn't even been tested in humans yet.

Unless I'm misinterpreting this, the human phase 1 trial is already underway as of April 2021. It's set to conclude in October this year.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Unless I'm misinterpreting this, the human phase 1 trial is already underway as of April 2021. It's set to conclude in October this year.

I meant more that there is no data on usage in humans, as every study I'm aware of is still talking about preclinical data from animal studies. And it's pretty strange that there haven't been any results released in the 14 months since it started. Phase 1 trials for COVID vaccines can normally have immunogenicity results within a couple of months. Even by traditional vaccine standards, that's a relatively long time for a phase 1 trial.

[Macman]

So this thread title has the 2nd dose in it but what about the 3rd and 4th now. I’m eligible for my 4th now but not sure or at least haven’t heard too much about it.

I’m still going to get it but just curious as to what recommendations are, maybe wait another month heading into fall.

[GreenLantern2814]

My sister went to the ER on Monday after having trouble taking deep breaths- she’s an otherwise healthy, 27, she’s had 4 shots, and the only thing her doctor seemed concerned about was blood clots caused by COVID vaccines.

I have three shots. I don’t believe I’ll be getting a fourth. Someone needs to explain how your immune system just forgets what a spike protein looks like within 18 months after 3 doses.

Especially if there’s a reasonable chance you’ve come in contact with the virus over the last year and a half, and your boosted immune system disposed of COVID like Uncle Phil tossing Jazz onto the lawn. My dog gets a rabies vaccine every three years, Bortadella every year, presumably because she’s not constantly beset by rabid or bortadellish pathogens.

I understand the concept of variants, but are these vaccines tailored to them? I don’t see how they could be.

So no. Three is enough. I’m not going to the hospital and I’m not dying with three.

Call me irresponsible.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Why would anyone call you irresponsible? We are well into the phase of doing whatever is necessary for your own personal health.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Why would anyone call you irresponsible? We are well into the phase of doing whatever is necessary for your own personal health.

I suppose I’m thinking mostly of my family, particularly my sister, mother, wife and in laws.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

My sister went to the ER on Monday after having trouble taking deep breaths- she’s an otherwise healthy, 27, she’s had 4 shots, and the only thing her doctor seemed concerned about was blood clots caused by COVID vaccines.

I have three shots. I don’t believe I’ll be getting a fourth. Someone needs to explain how your immune system just forgets what a spike protein looks like within 18 months after 3 doses.

Especially if there’s a reasonable chance you’ve come in contact with the virus over the last year and a half, and your boosted immune system disposed of COVID like Uncle Phil tossing Jazz onto the lawn. My dog gets a rabies vaccine every three years, Bortadella every year, presumably because she’s not constantly beset by rabid or bortadellish pathogens.

I understand the concept of variants, but are these vaccines tailored to them? I don’t see how they could be.

So no. Three is enough. I’m not going to the hospital and I’m not dying with three.

Call me irresponsible.

The one thing is, the next shot will be more closely formulated to the variants which are going around now. But I also agree, it's very unlikely you're going to the hospital fourth shot or not.

[calf]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

My sister went to the ER on Monday after having trouble taking deep breaths- she’s an otherwise healthy, 27, she’s had 4 shots, and the only thing her doctor seemed concerned about was blood clots caused by COVID vaccines.

I have three shots. I don’t believe I’ll be getting a fourth. Someone needs to explain how your immune system just forgets what a spike protein looks like within 18 months after 3 doses.

Especially if there’s a reasonable chance you’ve come in contact with the virus over the last year and a half, and your boosted immune system disposed of COVID like Uncle Phil tossing Jazz onto the lawn. My dog gets a rabies vaccine every three years, Bortadella every year, presumably because she’s not constantly beset by rabid or bortadellish pathogens.

I understand the concept of variants, but are these vaccines tailored to them? I don’t see how they could be.

So no. Three is enough. I’m not going to the hospital and I’m not dying with three.

Call me irresponsible.

The vaccines being used right now are the OG formula, but Omicron specific ones are expected late fall/early winter. It seems most boosters are recommended 6 months after the last, but we're talking 4-5 months until Omicron ones are available, so it's a tough balance timing-wise if you want the variant specific one as soon as it's available.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

My sister went to the ER on Monday after having trouble taking deep breaths- she’s an otherwise healthy, 27, she’s had 4 shots, and the only thing her doctor seemed concerned about was blood clots caused by COVID vaccines.

I have three shots. I don’t believe I’ll be getting a fourth. Someone needs to explain how your immune system just forgets what a spike protein looks like within 18 months after 3 doses.

It doesn't forget it, but circulating antibodies to coronaviruses tend to wane over time, from both vaccination and infection. And when you couple that with the fact that we need significantly higher levels of antibodies to protect against variants that are dissimilar from what we were vaccinated/infected with, then it explains why protection against infection from newer variants doesn't last very long.

But your body still recognizes the virus and can use a combination of newly produced antibodies and cellular immunity to fight it off, which is what helps prevent severe disease. Each time you're vaccinated/infected your body improves its response (up to a point at least), but even after 2-3 doses you have a significant level of medium-term protection against severe disease, at least with the current variants.

Especially if there’s a reasonable chance you’ve come in contact with the virus over the last year and a half, and your boosted immune system disposed of COVID like Uncle Phil tossing Jazz onto the lawn. My dog gets a rabies vaccine every three years, Bortadella every year, presumably because she’s not constantly beset by rabid or bortadellish pathogens.

Fighting off a few viral particles after exposure doesn't really test your immune system, whereas a full on infection with billions of virions does. So there isn't really an improved antibody response from an exposure like there is from an infection. So that is to say, you could encounter the virus all the time and your antibodies would still tend to wane unless those encounters developed into an infection.

I understand the concept of variants, but are these vaccines tailored to them? I don’t see how they could be.

So no. Three is enough. I’m not going to the hospital and I’m not dying with three.

Call me irresponsible.

The current vaccines are still targeting the original virus. For some reason (likely financial), they developed and tested multi-valent vaccines in 2021 and they proved to be superior against all variants, but because they weren't a complete game changer they never went into production. So we're still using the 2.5 year old formulation.

In terms of a 4th dose, it kind depends on someone's circumstances. If you're older (probably 40 or 50+), have comorbidities, or regularly interact with vulnerable people, then the benefits likely significantly outweigh any risks. On the other hand, if you're young and healthy then your chances of being hospitalized after 3 doses is quite small; I think it's basically on par with the flu at this point (though that could change over time).

And of course there is the option of seeking out a dose of Novavax. There's less data on it than the mRNA vaccines, but it's likely better tolerated and is a more traditional technology that has been in use for about 40 years.

[Nyah]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

My sister went to the ER on Monday after having trouble taking deep breaths- she’s an otherwise healthy, 27, she’s had 4 shots, and the only thing her doctor seemed concerned about was blood clots caused by COVID vaccines.

Regardless of everything else, blood clots are scary as hell. I hope your sister is feeling better and recovering.

[Manhattanboy]

Looks like Omicron specific vaccines will be available soon in the US:

https://flip.it/639CJE

[photon]

They were saying on the radio that Canada also purchased 12 million doses of Moderna's bivalent vaccine.

[Fuzz]

Health Canada has formally approved Moderna's updated COVID-19 vaccine targeting the Omicron variant.

It has been approved for use in adults 18 and older.

In a decision summary made public Thursday, Health Canada said the new bivalent vaccine induced "significantly higher responses" to the Omicron BA.1 virus in comparison to Moderna's original coronavirus vaccine, officially branded as Spikevax.

While the updated vaccine was developed to target the Omicron BA.1 variant, Health Canada says clinical trials suggest the new vaccine still elicits a "stronger immune response" against more recent mutations of Omicron — BA.4 and BA.5 — which are now dominant.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/hea...569398?cmp=rss

Sounds like we have 12 million doses, which i suspect will be enough to immunize pretty much anyone who wants it and qualifies.

[Mccree]

Does one wait for the Pfizer one if that is the one you have already gotten 2/3 times?

[cgy-sk-import]

Hoping someone can clarify... my understanding is that Canada has approved the Moderna bivalent vaccine that targets the original Omicron (BA1?), but not the BA4 and BA5.

And, from reading the press release from the US, it seems that their approval is for the shot that targets BA4 and BA5.

Is Moderna seriously producing TWO different bivalent vaccines, and Canada is receiving the one that only targets the original Omicron? Or, will Canada receive the updated BA4/BA5 one, same as the US?

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by Mccree

Does one wait for the Pfizer one if that is the one you have already gotten 2/3 times?

That’s my question as well. We have three Pfizer shots and we’re going overseas in October so we have to decide soon.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by cgy-sk-import

Hoping someone can clarify... my understanding is that Canada has approved the Moderna bivalent vaccine that targets the original Omicron (BA1?), but not the BA4 and BA5.

And, from reading the press release from the US, it seems that their approval is for the shot that targets BA4 and BA5.

Is Moderna seriously producing TWO different bivalent vaccines, and Canada is receiving the one that only targets the original Omicron? Or, will Canada receive the updated BA4/BA5 one, same as the US?

I believe the US one is Pfizer for BA4/BA5. Doesn't sound like Canada has approved that one yet.