The intellectual dark web

[PsYcNeT]

He's not offensive, he's just what a stupid person thinks a smart guy should sound like.

He's Dr. Phil with the folksy witticisms swapped for 10 dollar words.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

He's not offensive, he's just what a stupid person thinks a smart guy should sound like.

He's Dr. Phil with the folksy witticisms swapped for 10 dollar words.

That's all well and good, but lots of people like Dr. Phil.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by peter12

That's all well and good, but lots of people like Dr. Phil.

Lots of people like #### and ball torture, but that doesn't mean they should be talking about it in the break room.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by peter12

For what its worth, there is clearly something going on with young men that is overall pretty detrimental for a society shooting for egalitarian outcomes etc... I don't know what it is, but I am sure that Peterson's fairly significant social outcome has more to do with him just being a kind of sneaky alt-right propagandist.

I can agree with this. I do think people like Peterson rising to prominence is symptomatic of larger societal issues. I don't think Peterson himself is the problem, but he's not helping either.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Lots of people like #### and ball torture, but that doesn't mean they should be talking about it in the break room.

I'm not totally sure you ever really know what's going on.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I can agree with this. I do think people like Peterson rising to prominence is symptomatic of larger societal issues. I don't think Peterson himself is the problem, but he's not helping either.

Is it a grift? Or is he just a weirdo trying to contribute in his own way? I lean strongly towards the latter, myself. I think he's a weirdo, but there is a sincerity that strikes a certain type of young man a certain way. I'm not sure that should automatically be discounted. I definitely wouldn't put him quite in the same sphere as Rogan, Shapiro or any of the other clowns.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by peter12

Is it a grift? Or is he just a weirdo trying to contribute in his own way? I lean strongly towards the latter, myself. I think he's a weirdo, but there is a sincerity that strikes a certain type of young man a certain way. I'm not sure that should automatically be discounted. I definitely wouldn't put him quite in the same sphere as Rogan, Shapiro or any of the other clowns.

I don't think it is a grift, but I do think that if you look at Peterson the revered academic vs. Peterson now, it's hard to discount the role severe mental illness and the effects of those medications have played on who he is, how he speaks, and how he reasons. I think it's been incredibly damaging to him, and the more I learn about him, the more I see him as a sad figure. I also think he has the wrong people around him encouraging him (what do you do when a certain breed of people put you on a pedestal? I imagine it's hard not to lean further in).

If 12 Rules was written by Dr. Phil, nobody would think of it as profound or really take it seriously. And it could have been written by him. As you said, it's pretty boiler plate, run of the mill, generic self help stuff. There's no level of thinking there that you couldn't find on some inspirational Instagram account.

Who knows how his treatment in Russia went, but unless he's suddenly cured, I imagine he'll just slowly fade away into obscurity. A lot of what he says now that isn't just a repeat of something he's said before is far too vacuous and poorly reasoned. He's still great at talking a lot, but he seems to say less and less as time goes on. He's lost whatever it was that made him a well-respected lecturer and academic, which is just really sad honestly.

[peter12]

I don't think it is a grift, but I do think that if you look at Peterson the revered academic vs. Peterson now, it's hard to discount the role severe mental illness and the effects of those medications have played on who he is, how he speaks, and how he reasons. I think it's been incredibly damaging to him, and the more I learn about him, the more I see him as a sad figure. I also think he has the wrong people around him encouraging him (what do you do when a certain breed of people put you on a pedestal? I imagine it's hard not to lean further in)

.

Come on. Are you a psychiatrist? FWIW, I agree that he seems to have been taken in by PR types.

If 12 Rules was written by Dr. Phil, nobody would think of it as profound or really take it seriously. And it could have been written by him. As you said, it's pretty boiler plate, run of the mill, generic self help stuff. There's no level of thinking there that you couldn't find on some inspirational Instagram account.

Maybe, maybe not. Self-help is one of the most popular genres.

Who knows how his treatment in Russia went, but unless he's suddenly cured, I imagine he'll just slowly fade away into obscurity. A lot of what he says now that isn't just a repeat of something he's said before is far too vacuous and poorly reasoned. He's still great at talking a lot, but he seems to say less and less as time goes on. He's lost whatever it was that made him a well-respected lecturer and academic, which is just really sad honestly.

Yeah, he's a weird guy and I don't go for a long of his weird Jungian art theory crap.

That said, it doesn't discount the fact that many young men still find him a positive influence on their lives - even if that influence is as banal as clean your room and learn a skill. If the semi-intellectual BS helps that message go down, I don't see the harm.

[GirlySports]

I agree with PepsiFree. Peterson is really left-of-center. But in 2019 politics, the people on the right have taken his message as freedom and liberty. He got caught on the right thinking he was doing something good.

Then he toured a year with the biggest fraud Dave Rubin and the right totally took advantage of him and wore him down. He was tricked into thinking hes solving right wing strawman problems.

Now they are trotting him out again. Sure if he helps a number of people that's great. But the right is going to break him down again.

[GreenLantern2814]

I do think Jordan Peterson is a cautionary tale about runaway success and celebrity - I don’t know for a fact that all this attention has ruined his life, but I would guess that it has.

Had he remained an anonymous, somewhat conservative tenured psychology professor at the University of Toronto with a clinical practice, a lot of what has befallen him in the last few years would not have occurred.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by peter12

.Come on. Are you a psychiatrist? FWIW, I agree that he seems to have been taken in by PR types.

Maybe, maybe not. Self-help is one of the most popular genres.

Yeah, he's a weird guy and I don't go for a long of his weird Jungian art theory crap.

That said, it doesn't discount the fact that many young men still find him a positive influence on their lives - even if that influence is as banal as clean your room and learn a skill. If the semi-intellectual BS helps that message go down, I don't see the harm.

A psychiatrist in what way? I'm not diagnosing anything, his struggles with severe mental illness are fairly well known as is the fact that both the conditions and the treatment can and often do deeply impact the way your brain works. And his case has been particularly extreme.

I also don't see the harm in most of what he goes on about. 12 Rules is pretty uncontroversial and if it helps someone, that's great. But I do think he says some pretty stupid, potentially harmful or at least divisive things from time to time, and because of his influence over some young men, is taken as truth without critical thought.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I also don't see the harm in most of what he goes on about. 12 Rules is pretty uncontroversial and if it helps someone, that's great. But I do think he says some pretty stupid, potentially harmful or at least divisive things from time to time, and because of his influence over some young men, is taken as truth without critical thought.

I think if he had just stuck with the self-help, no one would care. Tony Robbins doesn't really generate a tonne of controversy. I think it's the fact that he used his political views to really boost his status and that him and his fanboys treat the self-help stuff as profound that rubs people the wrong way.

I used to have a buddy who would, on almost on any topic, start his rebuttal off with "Well Jordan Peterson says..."

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I think if he had just stuck with the self-help, no one would care. Tony Robbins doesn't really generate a tonne of controversy. I think it's the fact that he used his political views to really boost his status and that him and his fanboys treat the self-help stuff as profound that rubs people the wrong way.

I used to have a buddy who would, on almost on any topic, start his rebuttal off with "Well Jordan Peterson says..."

At least Peterson is a doctor with decades of practical experience treating troubled people.

That’s more of a source than Commodore Dry Ass Kitty or the Pierre McGuire of the UFC.

[GirlySports]

Books are fine, interviews are fine. He should not have toured.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Books are fine, interviews are fine. He should not have toured.

The interviews weren't really great either. Does anyone remember the hilariously pathetic "If they fine me, I won't pay it. If they throw me in jail, I'll go on a hunger strike" bit he pulled out in response to gender identity being added to the Charter?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Books are fine, interviews are fine. He should not have toured.

Look, I'm not going to blame a guy for wanting to make a buck or two.

[rubecube]

More dark intellect from everyone's favourite, very smart boy.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1390716580892446720

[GirlySports]

I think you are obsessed with him. I don't watch his daily show. I don't think anyone on CP does.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I think you are obsessed with him. I don't watch his daily show. I don't think anyone on CP does.

I follow people on twitter who retweet his clips, and I find them really funny because he's such a dweeb.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I think you are obsessed with him. I don't watch his daily show. I don't think anyone on CP does.

This is a silly comment. You're in a thread that's literally for discussing (and dunking) on these weirdos. Shapiro is name-brand weirdo.