Another exciting Tipping thread

[octothorp]

I guess it depends in part on where your restaurant is at. If you're working to grow your business, this is probably a bad idea based on feedback here. If you've got an established base and a lot of regulars, it's unlikely that your regulars would object to this sort of policy. Which is a bigger challenge for you right now: attracting and retaining staff, or growing your customer base? If it's the former and mandatory tipping is seen as a good thing by your employees, then maybe it's worth considering.

Another option to 'level the playing field' for the employees would be to set up a pool system, where all tips go into a pool that's divided amongst the employees based on their time. In this way, an employee doesn't go home empty-handed if they end up with a section full of jerks on a given night, and yet there's still an incentive to provide excellent service, since it benefits everyone who's on shift that evening.

[Swayze11]

I think the poll speaks for itself, but I went to Sandro and on the bottom of their menu it says "An automatic 20% gratuity will be added on all bills" and it is crossed out with a black sharpie. I think that is a sign that it doenst work. Sandro is an amazing restaurant (I heard they supplied the flames with their food on the road during our cup run) and has no problem getting people to their restaurant but that could be a sign.

[DementedReality]

1) if you are concerned your staff dont make enough, PAY THEM MORE and fund it through your sales, like any other business would do.

2) your comment about you not wanting your staff to think about money is odd. shouldnt you be encouraging your staff to provide great service, showcase your products, upsell your value add's (like wine and desert). business is about money, i question your model.

3) unless the server used her master oral skills under the table, i would never return out of principle. it could be the best food, the best service and the best view, but the presumptious nature of adding the tip would be over the top.

4) frankly, if your food and service was as good as you say it was, you wouldnt settle for 14%. the fact you want to set it there seems to indicate your staff arent getting a 14% average and therefore you want to engineer it for them.

5) if you do go with this, i encourage you to NOT call it a TIP because its not. A TIP should be voluntary. This is a "service fee" and should be noted as such. In fact, if you called it a service fee, i might be less insulted about it.

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[Reggie Dunlop]

I'd go with a fixed percentage for a tip if I could haggle over the price of the meal.

[Nancy]

Let me ask you a question: Do you like fuel surcharges and other hidden fees? Didn't think so. The honest thing to do would be to up the menu prices by 20% and post a "NO TIPPING" sign prominently at the front of the restaurant.

[DementedReality]

why cant tipping be at the discretion of the customer? i hate that restaurants pay their staff minimum wage and justify it by saying they get tips. they should pay a fair wage and if the staff get a tip, good for them.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Nancy

Let me ask you a question: Do you like fuel surcharges and other hidden fees?

We don't want to hide this, we want to be as up front with it as possible.

The honest thing to do would be to up the menu prices by 20% and post a "NO TIPPING" sign prominently at the front of the restaurant.

This is something we thought about, but there are some problems with it.

1) we're already perceived as being somewhat expensive. For whatever reason people don't think about tips when they think about the price of a meal, even though everyone tips some percentage Upping our prices by 20% we think, would be more negatively impactful than an automatic gratuity.

2) If we increase the price of our food, it ups the amount of tax customers have to pay. We don't want to do this to our customers.

3) We don't want the perception that it's the restaurant as opposed to the servers who are benefitting from the automatic tip policy. This would be very hard to show if we simply upped our prices.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by driveway

We don't want to hide this, we want to be as up front with it as possible.



This is something we thought about, but there are some problems with it.

1) we're already perceived as being somewhat expensive. For whatever reason people don't think about tips when they think about the price of a meal, even though everyone tips some percentage Upping our prices by 20% we think, would be more negatively impactful than an automatic gratuity.

You are basically upping the price by 14% with this automatic tipping.

2) If we increase the price of our food, it ups the amount of tax customers have to pay. We don't want to do this to our customers.

Well at least someone would be paying taxes, because we all know the government ain't going to see it if it's left in cash on the table.

3) We don't want the perception that it's the restaurant as opposed to the servers who are benefitting from the automatic tip policy. This would be very hard to show if we simply upped our prices.

Well people will ask "Why don't you except tips?" the server will just tell them that the company pays us a generous salary vs min. wage + tips.

I'd except that.

[Traditional_Ale]

To the OP (because I only read the first couple pages...):

If you believe in your staff and are worried about them getting gratuities, then perhaps pay them more? They work for tips I know, but employee solidarity and commitment to a good boss are, imo, the most important part of the restaurant game.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by troutman

Tips are built-in in Europe, and the service is terrible. The waiters have no incentive to do a good job.

People laughed at me in Switzwerland when I tipped until I was told it was built in. I liked it when I got used to it, as I didn;t have to worry about adding any numbers.
I pretty much expect bad service everywhere these days, and would tip extra for good service. I'd probably make a mess in the bathroom for really bad service, to make a point.

[Dion]

Our servers really like their jobs. We are a great place to work, we have awesome customers (for the most part) and our servers are very good at and enjoy what they do. They feel that with automatic tipping, they would be free to simply enjoy giving great service, as opposed to feeling like they need to prostrate themselves before our customers for cash.

I find this sense of entitlement disturbing. A tip is in no way a right - it has to be earned!

You say they love thier jobs and all. If they think they have to prostrate themselves on thier customers then thier understanding of customer service is flawed. Frankly when someone does that it's easy to spot as they come across as a fraud who IMO is sucking up to the customer to get that tip. Just be yourself!

It's the difference between working on salary and working on commission. It works for some people, it's motivating for some people, but for a great many people it's simply stressful and the effort frequently not worth the reward.

If the present working conditions of earning that tip is too stressful, they should consider finding another career.

If your self confident in what you do this shouldn't be an issue.

[NuclearFart]

Originally Posted by Torture

Might be because servers make minimum wage...

Do servers deserve more than this? They certainly don't have any special skill sets after years of post secondary trainning, nor are they particularily talented. There's also lots of people with service based jobs (including myself!) who don't receive tips, nor do they expect it.

And those hourly wages after tips are very surprising. If servers are making more than nurses, teachers, residents...etc, something is wrong with society.

[Eric Vail]

I wouldn't eat at a restaurant in Calgary that automatically included the tip. As many have said, that needs to be earned. By supporting a restaurant that did this, I would be supporting a change in the system to be more like Europe, where the service is terrible. There are lots of restaurant options in Calgary, I could easily find another.

[onetwo_threefour]

I've only read the first page, but as a former server, I hate this idea. Either bump your prices and pay your staff better and institute a no tipping policy, or leave it the way it is. This system rewards poor servers, punishes good ones, and pisses off customers. Not good planning IMO.

[flambers]

Personally I hate this... I was at a restaurant in Florida that had automatic tipping function... Problem with this is the serivce was brutual yet the tip is still high...

[Rathji]

At first I was thinking it would be a good idea, but now that I think about it more (and reading these posts) it makes me realize that even though you will refund the tip if the service is bad, how bad will it need to be before someone will go and speak to the manager?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Tipping is one of the stupidest things in our society.

I would like to see the first restaurant in Calgary to pay their staff a fair wage, so customers don't have to be gauged into subsidizing Jill's tuition.

Act like any other business on the planet and find a model where revenues cover your costs which includes decent wages. If you can't do this, you don't have a sustainable business and should close your doors for good.

[jtfrogger]

I am not a fan of this idea.

I find whenever I am in a large group and a restaurant forces a specific tip, that the service degrades. In one particular instance, I did talk to the manager about the atrocious service and was not happy about the 17% mandatory tip. He agreed and apologized for the service, but did not refund anything. I don't go back there any more. When someone else recommends it, I tell them my story and we go somewhere else. I organize a number of work lunches with larger groups. I now have a small list of places that can easily accommodate a large group and don't force a specific tip.

I find that the best places solicit feedback. This can happen a number of ways. One, is if the manager visits before you get your cheque. Another is if the hostess asks about your meal on the way out. I have seen places that ask for more details if you are not completely satisfied, and give you gift certificates or comp something on the meal. Those are the places that have me coming back. I also tend to tip them very well. If you want real feedback, I would recommend you do this.

A forced tip would make me make a decision to just not come back if the service was anything other than exceptional. If it is at the point where I go out of my way to complain to the manager, removing the 14% tip would usually not satisfy me. I'm still a little bitter about the place that served me an inedible steak, and in order to compensate me removed the coffee from the bill. Seriously, I sent it back with bites missing from two ends with small piles of chewed steak next to it because I could not get it down. Why didn't you take the fataing steak off the bill?

[Burninator]

I think the idea of putting a tip on automatically is incredibly pretentious. Not everyone would be comfortable asking to talk to the manager to not leave a tip. Most people like to avoid conflict, and no matter how you phrase it you are putting the customer on the defencive. You are making them justify why they shouldn't have to pay this number printed on the bill. The people who don't like the idea or got poor service will most likely pay the full amount with the tip and not come back.

It seems like you are putting the cart before the horse OP. Tipping should be based on the service. My only suggestion would be to offer a higher base wage or some sort of other benefit that would entice staff. Waiting on tables is a job that is largely based on tips, which is based on your service. I'm not sorry if being a waiter/waitress is a hard job. It pays what it pays. Tipping should not be mandatory.

In my opinion if I went to a restaurant that had that setup and I wasn't so much of a pansy I would tell the manager I thought it was pretentious and I do not wish to leave a tip based solely on that. However since I am a pansy I would pay the tip, complain about it to my girlfriend in the car ride home, and not return to the restaurant. Maybe you are a niche restaurant but for the most part one can get the same food at another dozen restaurants in the city that don't demand a tip or have crappy service. I don't think I use a single service in the city that offers a good product with crappy service.



Personally I think tipping is starting to grow into a monster. More and more businesses are expecting tipping and now they are considering demanding it. It has essentially turned into the encore of a concert. Bands are expected to come back on to stage and play a couple more songs. An encore wasn't always treated that way nor was tipping. However I don't know who to blame, the customer or the business. I'm sure it's a combination of them both. I have honestly had a waitress come up to our table and say that the tip wasn't enough. And I have honestly gone for lunch that took over two hours (during my one hour lunch break) and barely got any refills of our drinks, no apology for the delay, and there was still people at the table that wanted to leave a tip. I think both of those examples are awful forms of tipping gone mad by both sides.

[driveway]

Thanks for your input, CP. After the overwhelming negative response from you, we have decided not to implement an automatic tip policy.