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Old 03-12-2019, 04:54 PM   #81
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Lol - do you let them drive to work?
When they get in their cars they don't typically think hmm maybe the control systems in my Acura will fail today and I will die.
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Old 03-12-2019, 05:01 PM   #82
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When they get in their cars they don't typically think hmm maybe the control systems in my Acura will fail today and I will die.
You are correct - they are more likely to relinquish control to check their Instagram and die.
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Old 03-12-2019, 05:01 PM   #83
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When they get in their cars they don't typically think hmm maybe the control systems in my Acura will fail today and I will die.
Well maybe they should, because mechanical parts fail on cars all the time, occasionally with deadly consequences. Ever had a tire blowout while doing 110km/h?
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Old 03-12-2019, 05:08 PM   #84
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I have a realistic chance to survive a car crash.
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Old 03-12-2019, 05:13 PM   #85
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We will have to see what the recorder says. If it shows the override switches were never thrown, then pilot error looks to be a big part of it. I don't really think a sensor failure fail mode should be "auto-crash" though. That seems like a big oversight.
I don’t work on planes but f you look at a process plant or oil facility you would have gone through a Hazard assessment to evaluate how effective your safety systems are in the event of a malfunction. In process plants a sensor failure might have a 1/10yr chance of occurring and if you’d combine that a failure would cause multiple fatalities you would likely have to have 3 independent Layers of protection that would stop the event from happening only one of which could be operator intervention.

From the articles about the Lion air crash a single instrument failure caused the crash with the only safeguard being operator intervention and the operators did not have a procedure for what that intervention should be becuase know one told them how the controls would function.

No facility in Alberta would allow its workers to work under such conditions.

At a minimum you would expect to see independent sensors tied to indenpendant control loops which have some sort of verification structure when the two sensors disagree. A sensor failure that causes the plane to crash without operator intervention is not safe.
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Old 03-12-2019, 05:16 PM   #86
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Well maybe they should, because mechanical parts fail on cars all the time, occasionally with deadly consequences. Ever had a tire blowout while doing 110km/h?
We have seat belts, airbags, crumple zones, wire netting between causeways to eliminate the worst case head on impacts, tear away light polls, wide shoulders all designed to give people a fighting chance if there car blows a tire and operator intervention fails.

If 100% of people who hit the ditch died we would be redesigning cars.
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Old 03-12-2019, 05:21 PM   #87
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Well maybe they should, because mechanical parts fail on cars all the time, occasionally with deadly consequences. Ever had a tire blowout while doing 110km/h?
The point is when taking off in a Max 8 v. an A320 you are definitely going to be paying more attention to bumps and shakes....
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Old 03-12-2019, 08:57 PM   #88
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremyb.../#23d37416584a

Turns out the copilot only had 200 hours, which is crazy. My brother said these countries train pilots alot differently than we do. They get all their hours on automated planes and have very little feel for how to actually fly. Even the captain only had 8000 hours, and he is the one training the copilot on the job. Around here you would be lucky to be captain with those hours, let alone a trainer.
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Old 03-12-2019, 09:40 PM   #89
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2 of the 370 planes in service failing within 2 years isn't really odds I'd be comfortable with. Especially if I was a pilot or flight attendant flying in them every day.

I have a couple trips coming up with my kids and I'm not sure I'd get on a Max 8 at this point with them. The fact that half the world thinks they need to be grounded changes my comfortably factor by quite a bit. I imagine there are going to be a lot of passengers refusing to get on these planes as the news of these bans spreads.
I don’t disagree with you. I was more responding to the idea that it’s still safe given the miles etc etc etc. I don’t think any of that really matters for the reasons in my post.

Poster above summarized what most industries do for risk assessment. When death is an outcome you put multiple layers of protection in. The first crash this did not appear to be the case. I’m quite shocked there are still airlines that haven’t grounded them for that reason.

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Old 03-12-2019, 10:58 PM   #90
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Air Canada flight attendants not comfortable flying on the Max 8.
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Old 03-12-2019, 11:09 PM   #91
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Sunwing just grounded their 4 planes, allegedly due to the various airspace restrictions.

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Old 03-13-2019, 06:32 AM   #92
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Sunwing just grounded their 4 planes, allegedly due to the various airspace restrictions.

Or they lost the instruction manual and were like Dude, didn't think anyone actual read those. Or they lost the keys. Dude I thought they were in the bowl. Or they trashed them during the big tarmac party of '18. Losers.
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:18 AM   #93
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More details are starting to come out that this was more widespread and the registered incidents are not very good for Boeing. Do you want to be on a plane that can suddenly decide to nose-down with autopilot?

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/13/us/pi...max/index.html

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In one of the complaints, a captain reported an autopilot anomaly which led to a brief nose-down situation -- where the front of the aircraft pointed down, according to the federal database. In another complaint, a first officer reported that the aircraft pitched nose down after the autopilot was engaged during departure. The autopilot was then disconnected and flight continued to its destination, according to the database.
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:21 AM   #94
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Man, wish I had a ton of liquidity available right now to buy Boeing stock
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:43 AM   #95
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Man, wish I had a ton of liquidity available right now to buy Boeing stock

It's not really that low. It was at this level a month ago. It seems like this might take a while to sort out too.
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:47 AM   #96
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Man, wish I had a ton of liquidity available right now to buy Boeing stock
I'm not sure why people keep saying this. It's only down about 10%. This is definitely going to hurt the company some, and depending on how things play out, could hurt it a lot. A 10% decline doesn't seem like an over-reaction to me.
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Old 03-13-2019, 09:23 AM   #97
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Who Says The Boeing 737 MAX Is Safe? The U.S. Pilots Who Fly It

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed.../#3843c7f225fc
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Old 03-13-2019, 09:40 AM   #98
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So im travelling thru Europe on my way to London this weekend, to watch Fulham play.

We are scheduled to leave Monday morning from Gatwick on a Westjet Max 8 direct to Calgary. the UK have grounded them but Canada hasn't. where does this leave me if I haven't heard anything?
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Old 03-13-2019, 09:48 AM   #99
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Call WestJet immediately. If by direct you meant nonstop, your flight is not on a 737 anyway. WS2 LGW-YYC is flying normally on a 767.
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Old 03-13-2019, 09:51 AM   #100
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Canada grounds all Max 8 planes based on new information learned this morning. So what does Westjet do with its planes in Europe? Weird.
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