A Game of Thrones **BOOKS OFF LIMITS** v2

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

They concluded the first war in season 4, this season was a "shift all the pieces into place" series of episodes and next year will be the beginning of the second war with the white walkers.

This season was going to be not as good because it was all a transition from point A to point B.

What pieces were moved in place from your perspective? Stannis is gone so I guess that's a move. Sansa is one the run, just like she was at the start of the season. Brienne is looking for Sansa, just like the start of the season. Dany actually regressed. Cersei is back in the Red Keep and angry.

Episodes move pieces, not entire seasons. It was definitely the worst seasons and a lot of the complaints I had this year I've never had about this show. Lets hope next year picks it back up. Hardhome gave me so much hope after a poor start ... and then it just kinda meh'd its way to the end.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

You're right. Theon was so impacted by it, when Sansa asked him put the candle in the tower, he ran to Ramsey.

I just don't think the rape was required, and they could have used something else to achieve those ends. Furthermore it's troubling that a women's rape wasn't about the women at all, but about a man's story arc.

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

You could. But they way I viewed the rape was more about Theon than Sansa frankly. It wasn't even about Sansa having her new found agency violently taken away. It was about Theon's surrogate sister being violated to become a reason Theon becomes Theon again.

Sansa on the parapet at arrow point: " I know what Ramsay is and what he'll do to me. If I'm going to die, let it happen while there's still some of me left."

She doesn't get to that point if she's simply shuttered away in her room being forced to eat cold Camembert.

[Inglewood Jack]

so, Littlefinger pretty much effed up this year eh? advantage: Varys.

[Looch City]

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by nik-

What pieces were moved in place from your perspective? Stannis is gone so I guess that's a move.

It's hard to say right now, not knowing exactly how the Stannis and Jon Snow deaths will play out.
2 huge characters seemingly killed off in pretty meaningless fashions. I'm sure there's more to it and dead or alive, they will play huge impacts on events to come.
Those are major pieces moving, we just don't know where to yet.

[V]

I thought the transformation and demise of Stannis was awesome to watch. I don't need it to lead to some grand conclusion. It was perfect.

[Thor]

My favorite image of the finale, exactly what I was thinking as it was happening.

Spoiler!

[ScorchyScorch]

I was actually more upset about Stannis quick decline to his demise than about Jon. However, I knew about Jon's fate beforehand.

And I kind of hate Melisandre for leading him to his end. Of course she just up and leaves as he was about to march..ticked me right off. Him and Davos had Jon's support and that's good enough for me to get behind. I was actaully getting invested in their camp even though I knew Stannis wasn't exactly good. Thing is he was the only one of the contenders that actually gave two ####s about the realm. But if both have truly perished then I think I'll cease to care. I mean it'll be enjoyable to watch I'm sure but my "guys" are out. It's like watching the cup finals when it's two teams you kind of hate and certainly don't care for. I don't care to see Dany sit on the iron throne. She's gotten her way too often over the entire show and hasn't had to face the trials that other characters have. I'd just like to see some sort of clashing or game of sorts (ala Holmes vs Moriarty) between Littlefinger and Varys, and to see Tyrion get immensely wealthy and powerful, and have all the women. As long as those things happen, the white walkers can wipe everyone out. I won't be sad.

#### you Brienne of 'Tard
#### you Melisandre and your lord of lies, too
#### you Dorne, for being so underwhelming
#### you Arya, stop making friends with bad people
#### you army of the dead, y u so slow?
#### you Ser Allister Traitorface
#### you Olly, how can you look Jon in his doe eyes and shank him?
#### you Tormund, where you go??
#### you Sam, crows before hoes.
#### you Ramsay, but keep up the evilness

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Thor

My favorite image of the finale, exactly what I was thinking as it was happening.

Yup, I had barely finished saying, "well, she's going to die," when her nose started bleeding.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

I'm worried that the show has killed off so many powerful characters without introducing and developing new ones that this show will simply run out of characters who can actually make any impact on events. In previous seasons it was all you could do just to keep up with who is who and where they rank in the power structure. Now you have less than 10 to really consider, and most are so far apart from each other that they have no impact on one another.

*Question marks indicates questionable political power.

King's Landing: Cersei w/ Frankenmountain, Tyrell clan (2 in prison, 1 in Braavos), Littlefinger, Qyburn?, Tommen?, High Sparrow.

The South: Doran Martell, Ellaria Sand and Sand Snakes?

The North: Roose Bolton, Ramsay Bolton, Sansa Stark, Reek/Theon?, Brienne of Tarth?, Ser Alliser Thorne, Sam Tarly?, Melisandre?

North of the Wall: Bran and Hodor?, 3-eyed Raven?, Children of the Forest?, White Walkers and the army of the undead.

Essos: Daenerys Targaryen and her dragons, Grey Worm and the Unsullied?, Tyrion Lannister and Varys, Ser Jorah Mormont and Daario Naharis?, Arya Stark and Jaqen H'ghar?

Unknown location: Thoros of Myr and Beric Dondarrion?, Rickon Stark and Osha?

They've thinned the cast so much that there's very little left to choose from to have an actual story next season. I imagine you will see the introduction of many characters very early in next season which will drastically slow down the plot for probably half a season. Outside of furthering the plot in a few locations, there will be almost nothing happening for the next while.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by getbak

Yup, I had barely finished saying, "well, she's going to die," when her nose started bleeding.

Soon as she kissed her on the mouth, found that to be very odd, figured something bad was going to happen.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Ok here's what I don't get

Myrcella is dead
Stannis is dead
Selyse is dead
Jon is dead
Myran Trant is dead
Jaqen H'ghar/No One is dead
Myranda is dead

Who The Bloody Hell Got Married?!?!

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Thor

Soon as she kissed her on the mouth, found that to be very odd, figured something bad was going to happen.

Am I the only one who thought he was going to end up sleeping with his daughter too!

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by nik-

What pieces were moved in place from your perspective? Stannis is gone so I guess that's a move. Sansa is one the run, just like she was at the start of the season. Brienne is looking for Sansa, just like the start of the season. Dany actually regressed. Cersei is back in the Red Keep and angry.

Episodes move pieces, not entire seasons. It was definitely the worst seasons and a lot of the complaints I had this year I've never had about this show. Lets hope next year picks it back up. Hardhome gave me so much hope after a poor start ... and then it just kinda meh'd its way to the end.

Dany is now in a position where she may be able to convince the Khal of the group to join her as she continues her journey.

Theon is beginning his redemption, and Sansa is coming into her own as she is realizing how evil the world is and that she can't be the delicate flower that she was in the early seasons.

The Lannisters are undergoing their fall from grace and the arrogance of Cersei will be their undoing. Cersei is not smart and when she is angry she is prone to even more mistakes. King's Landing is set to collapse in on itself with religious zealots.

Jon Snow (whether he is dead or not) and the members on the wall on both sides are going to have some conflict as the real enemy is at their door.

Now things can build towards the second conflict between the white walkers and the race of man. Next season will likely be more like the first where incidents will cause all the pieces to fall into place for the next war.

[Dime_On_Flames]

god damn this show

It's like a really bad girlfriend. She keeps breaking your heart over and over but you still keep going back to her....

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

I'm worried that the show has killed off so many powerful characters without introducing and developing new ones that this show will simply run out of characters who can actually make any impact on events. In previous seasons it was all you could do just to keep up with who is who and where they rank in the power structure. Now you have less than 10 to really consider, and most are so far apart from each other that they have no impact on one another.

*Question marks indicates questionable political power.

King's Landing: Cersei w/ Frankenmountain, Tyrell clan (2 in prison, 1 in Braavos), Littlefinger, Qyburn?, Tommen?, High Sparrow.

The South: Doran Martell, Ellaria Sand and Sand Snakes?

The North: Roose Bolton, Ramsay Bolton, Sansa Stark, Reek/Theon?, Brienne of Tarth?, Ser Alliser Thorne, Sam Tarly?, Melisandre?

North of the Wall: Bran and Hodor?, 3-eyed Raven?, Children of the Forest?, White Walkers and the army of the undead.

Essos: Daenerys Targaryen and her dragons, Grey Worm and the Unsullied?, Tyrion Lannister and Varys, Ser Jorah Mormont and Daario Naharis?, Arya Stark and Jaqen H'ghar?

Unknown location: Thoros of Myr and Beric Dondarrion?, Rickon Stark and Osha?

They've thinned the cast so much that there's very little left to choose from to have an actual story next season. I imagine you will see the introduction of many characters very early in next season which will drastically slow down the plot for probably half a season. Outside of furthering the plot in a few locations, there will be almost nothing happening for the next while.

According to the producers, there might be just 2 seasons left. Not a lot of time really.
Ultimately need three to ride/control the Dragons. Outside of their potential impact in defeating the white walkers, I don't think there is much other hope left in the seven kingdoms.

1. Daenerys
2. ?
3. ?

[Larry David]

Originally Posted by ScorchyScorch

I was actually more upset about Stannis quick decline to his demise than about Jon. However, I knew about Jon's fate beforehand.

And I kind of hate Melisandre for leading him to his end. Of course she just up and leaves as he was about to march..ticked me right off. Him and Davos had Jon's support and that's good enough for me to get behind. I was actaully getting invested in their camp even though I knew Stannis wasn't exactly good. Thing is he was the only one of the contenders that actually gave two ####s about the realm. But if both have truly perished then I think I'll cease to care. I mean it'll be enjoyable to watch I'm sure but my "guys" are out. It's like watching the cup finals when it's two teams you kind of hate and certainly don't care for. I don't care to see Dany sit on the iron throne. She's gotten her way too often over the entire show and hasn't had to face the trials that other characters have. I'd just like to see some sort of clashing or game of sorts (ala Holmes vs Moriarty) between Littlefinger and Varys, and to see Tyrion get immensely wealthy and powerful, and have all the women. As long as those things happen, the white walkers can wipe everyone out. I won't be sad.

#### you Brienne of 'Tard
#### you Melisandre and your lord of lies, too
#### you Dorne, for being so underwhelming
#### you Arya, stop making friends with bad people
#### you army of the dead, y u so slow?
#### you Ser Allister Traitorface
#### you Olly, how can you look Jon in his doe eyes and shank him?
#### you Tormund, where you go??
#### you Sam, crows before hoes.
#### you Ramsay, but keep up the evilness

I could be completely wrong about this, but I’m pretty sure there is more to it then what is leading on. At first glance it looks like Melisandre is bailing when the going gets tough. I don’t believe is the case at all. I believe in that moment Melisandre had an epiphany. Melisandre sacrificed Shireen to save the champion of light. When the snow melted, it wasn’t for Stannis, it was so that she could get to the wall to save the true champion of light, Jon Snow. She didn’t realize it until that last moment with Stannis. She will bring Jon back to life and Jon will be released from his vow of the Nights Watch because he had “died” before being resurrected by the Red Lady.
When you go back and rewatch the episode where Melisandre sees Jon for the first time, she notices something about him. Initially you may think that she may see him as a kings blood sacrifice, but I believe she sees something great in him but not sure what yet. She realized it was in that moment that final moment with Stannis that it was Jon who is the champion of light. I also believe the “I’ve been worrying about Jon for years he always comes back” line from Sam Tarly to be some serious foreshadowing, along with "Kill the boy and let the man be born" from Maester Aemon.

[ScorchyScorch]

Originally Posted by Larry David

I could be completely wrong about this, but I’m pretty sure there is more to it then what is leading on. At first glance it looks like Melisandre is bailing when the going gets tough. I don’t believe is the case at all. I believe in that moment Melisandre had an epiphany. Melisandre sacrificed Shireen to save the champion of light. When the snow melted, it wasn’t for Stannis, it was so that she could get to the wall to save the true champion of light, Jon Snow. She didn’t realize it until that last moment with Stannis. She will bring Jon back to life and Jon will be released from his vow of the Nights Watch because he had “died” before being resurrected by the Red Lady.
When you go back and rewatch the episode where Melisandre sees Jon for the first time, she notices something about him. Initially you may think that she may see him as a kings blood sacrifice, but I believe she sees something great in him but not sure what yet. She realized it was in that moment that final moment with Stannis that it was Jon who is the champion of light. I also believe the “I’ve been worrying about Jon for years he always comes back” line from Sam Tarly to be some serious foreshadowing.

Yup. That's the hope, anyways. And here's a thought. She saw Stannis overcoming Bolton and taking Winterfell but she also thought Stannis was Azor Ahai reborn. Maybe she was close to him, but like you said, realized it was in fact not Stannis. If Jon can be revived because of this then perhaps it's HE who is to overcome the Boltons and take Winterfell. Surely he wouldn't stay where he has no loyalty (but please kill Thorne), and he would be relieved of his watch as well, technically. I see Jon marching south with the help of a wildling army a la Davos' advice to take Winterfell next season. Him revealing himself as Azor Ahai and convincing them of being the one who can protect the realm from the approaching threat, I bet they would get behind him. Also seeing as he and Tormund have a good bond. I sure hope this is true. It would make a lot of fans happy as without Jon it's hard to get behind anybody at this point.

I also didn't buy Kit Harrington's interview on his death. He said he was told his character was "done" and when asked about his short term plans for the future it all sounded very tentative and undecided. And also didn't sound like he was planning to change his appearance or anything right away..

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by ScorchyScorch

Yup. That's the hope, anyways. And here's a thought. She saw Stannis overcoming Bolton and taking Winterfell but she also thought Stannis was Azor Ahai reborn. Maybe she was close to him, but like you said, realized it was in fact not Stannis. If Jon can be revived because of this then perhaps it's HE who is to overcome the Boltons and take Winterfell. Surely he wouldn't stay where he has no loyalty (but please kill Thorne), and he would be relieved of his watch as well, technically. I see Jon marching south with the help of a wildling army a la Davos' advice to take Winterfell next season. Him revealing himself as Azor Ahai and convincing them of being the one who can protect the realm from the approaching threat, I bet they would get behind him. Also seeing as he and Tormund have a good bond. I sure hope this is true. It would make a lot of fans happy as without Jon it's hard to get behind anybody at this point.

I also didn't buy Kit Harrington's interview on his death. He said he was told his character was "done" and when asked about his short term plans for the future it all sounded very tentative and undecided. And also didn't sound like he was planning to change his appearance or anything right away..

From the EW article

One thing actors get excited about after a long time on a show is they can change their appearance. Any plans to cut your hair?

I look like Jim Morrison right now. I don’t know what to do with it. I can cut it if I want, but it’s probably wise to leave long until I know what the next part is. I’ve kind of grown accustomed to it, it would feel weird to change it. [Note: Shortly after this interview was conducted, he cut it.]

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by Larry David

At first glance it looks like Melisandre is bailing when the going gets tough. I don’t believe is the case at all. I believe in that moment Melisandre had an epiphany.

ding ding ding...if this all turns out, it'll be one of the worst kept pop culture secrets of the next year.