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Old 02-20-2014, 08:19 PM   #1
FlameOn
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Default Ukraine Presidential Crackdown Violence. Russia Invades Ukraine

Not sure why there isn't a thread on this yet. Ukraine has been tearing itself apart for the past month.

Before and after shots of the central square in Kiev
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Images of the protests
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Basically back in December the controversially elected president Yanukovych decreed that Ukraine would form closer economic ties with Russia instead of the EU and completely abandoned it's previous plans to join an EU economic pact. This was contrary to public opinion. Russia then rewarded Ukraine with a $15 billion loan and stimulus package.

Many Ukrainians, perceiving this to be signs of corruption, decided to protest the decision and over 800k people showed up protests in Kiev's main public square. Initially protests were peaceful until their President passed a law, without parliamentary approval, that made protesting without government approval illegal, slander in person or online against politicians an offense and put in place a 3 year mandatory prison sentence for "gathering material" on judges and police. Ukrainians went nuts and the violence has gotten out of hand since.

Live ammunition is now being used by police and 21+ people are reportedly dead


Really hope the situation improves soon and we don't have another Syria. I'm not sure why there isn't as much news on this in North America, maybe the outlets didn't want to piss off Russia any more before the olympics

More on this here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26257542
Crisis explained:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25182823
Timeline:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-26248275

Previous CP thread about Yanukovych and his election
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...raine+Protests

Last edited by FlameOn; 03-01-2014 at 09:27 AM. Reason: Updated title
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Old 02-20-2014, 08:22 PM   #2
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Putin is blaming the US for this. Naturally.
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Old 02-20-2014, 08:35 PM   #3
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Longer video:



More pics:





Before and afters:





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Old 02-20-2014, 09:04 PM   #4
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Those videos piss me the F off... punk ass snipers sitting on the hill pecking off people that are unarmed like a big man.
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:08 PM   #5
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Putin sucks ass. Hopefully a reformer replaces him eventually. Unfortunately it will likely have to be after his death because I don't ever see him "losing" an election.
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:10 PM   #6
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Putin sucks ass. Hopefully a reformer replaces him eventually. Unfortunately it will likely have to be after his death because I don't ever see him "losing" an election.
Exactly. You'll need a civil or world war to dethrone this modern day czar. Kind of scary. Feel awful or the Russian people.
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:15 PM   #7
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Ugh and yeah I never watched those videos. Those police shooting unarmed protestors are traitors in my opinion. Those cowards should be hanged.
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:31 PM   #8
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Those videos piss me the F off... punk ass snipers sitting on the hill pecking off people that are unarmed like a big man.
Watching the headshot at 1:25 of the guy who just helped the injured protester was really painful to watch. Really disappointed in the mainstream media and our governments giving so little coverage on news like this.
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:34 PM   #9
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Ukrainians have been forcefully held under Russian command for many years. Just when many thought progress was being made with most of the population wanting to join the EU this crap happens. This is years of repressed anger being released. The Holodomor happened in the 30s but Ukrainians will never forget the 12 million people systematically starved/murdered by the Russians.

http://www.holodomorct.org/history.html
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:35 PM   #10
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Jeez, that video it is pretty grim. Not much coverage on the Venezuela protests either. Thailand gets barely a nod either. Mainstream western media should be ashamed of itself.
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:54 PM   #11
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Part of the problem is that Ukraine is a very divided country - the eastern half is pretty much ethnically, linguistically and culturally Russian while the western half is more western facing and nationalistic with a "Ukrainian" identity. Basically for several centuries the western half was part of Austria/Poland/Romania while the eastern half was part of the Russian empire. So the move to "Russianize" is seen favorably by part of the country while the rest favor moves towards joining the EU. There really isn't going to be a clean answer to this and I don't see it being resolved soon. It's unfortunate since it is a beautiful country with friendly people. I was just there a couple years ago to visit the villages my family came from and it hurts to see what the country is going through today.
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:55 PM   #12
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And the Ukrainian government has just declared martial law allowing and encouraging police free use of live ammunition. I expect deaths to ramp up very shortly
http://mvs.gov.ua/mvs/control/main/r...article/985257
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Old 02-20-2014, 10:25 PM   #13
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Since this isnt the middle east or africa but pretty firmly in the "western world" I wonder what course of action will be taken by the world powers.
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Old 02-20-2014, 10:27 PM   #14
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Since this isnt the middle east or africa but pretty firmly in the "western world" I wonder what course of action will be taken by the world powers.

History would say that they let large parts of it burn before they do #### all.
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Old 02-20-2014, 11:08 PM   #15
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I have a couple of distant cousins in the Ukraine. They both live in a small town outside of Kiev. I spoke with them last week, on the phone, briefly. My family and I have been trying to call them for the past 3 days, but lines are always either down or busy. It's difficult to get calls through. We've tried emailing and Skyping, but the Internet connection over there is always up and down.

I take comfort in the fact that I know they're not directly involved with the fighting.

I'm not going to pretend I know a lot about what is going on in the Ukraine. I really don't. The OP's post really kind of sums up what the Ukrainian people are fighting for. I wish there was more that we (I) could do. The feeling of helplessness is very overwhelming. I'm sure it's only because I have family over there. Of course, it's nothing compared to what the people over there are going through.
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Old 02-20-2014, 11:12 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Since this isnt the middle east or africa but pretty firmly in the "western world" I wonder what course of action will be taken by the world powers.
Nothing, its the same situation as Syria, Putin will stare anything down, if it gets to the UN he'll deny it. If the World Powers say boo he'll state that its an internal issue with a country in Russia's sphere of influence.

We not only have Western Middle Eastern problems. But we're heading back to the bad old days of the 80's with an Eastern and Western bloc.
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Old 02-20-2014, 11:28 PM   #17
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Nothing, its the same situation as Syria, Putin will stare anything down, if it gets to the UN he'll deny it. If the World Powers say boo he'll state that its an internal issue with a country in Russia's sphere of influence.

We not only have Western Middle Eastern problems. But we're heading back to the bad old days of the 80's with an Eastern and Western bloc.
Lets hope it doesn't go back to those days with the tank rolling and extreme military crackdowns.

There's hope though. A province of Ukraine has declared it's independence from federal authority in support of the protesters. Soldiers in that region are reportedly surrendering and laying down arms.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26255920
http://www.forbes.com/sites/stratfor...raines-crisis/
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Old 02-21-2014, 12:57 AM   #18
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Lets hope it doesn't go back to those days with the tank rolling and extreme military crackdowns.

There's hope though. A province of Ukraine has declared it's independence from federal authority in support of the protesters. Soldiers in that region are reportedly surrendering and laying down arms.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26255920
http://www.forbes.com/sites/stratfor...raines-crisis/
Until the Ukraine government asks for assistance and we start to see advisors
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Old 02-21-2014, 04:15 AM   #19
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Essential reading on the background, the political dynamics and the propaganda surrounding this protest:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/arch...ne/?insrc=hpss
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Old 02-21-2014, 08:58 AM   #20
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Some reports are saying 77 people killed now (60 being protesters).

As Arsenal mentioned, there is no easy political solution as half of Ukraine underwent intense Rusification for a long time and like to associate with Russia. Russia will continue to support them (and extort them with bail out money).

You would almost have to set up autonomous regions in any long term settlement plan. It wouldn't be too radical as Crimea already has some autonomy within Ukraine.
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