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Old 04-16-2021, 09:51 PM   #1641
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It is 100% Feds, including their faux hotel quarantine that people filmed themselves flaunting. Contact tracing has show an estimated 1 person per inbound flight to Canada is infected. Its insane.

Meanwhile Trudeau shrugs and says its up to the provinces to handle. That way he gets to cut checks and look good and Ford looks like the bad guy locking down.

Simply put If our borders were shut tight, meaning all people are compelled by law to go to a hotel or jail (if hotel refused) until cleared we simply wouldn’t be in this mess. Feds are the first line of defense and its worked about as well as the French in WWII
How is it 100% the feds? If it was all provinces would have all variants.

I know at least 2 or three people who went on vacay against recommendations.

If the feds do lay down the law completely then the provinces scream bloody murder for by overreach.

Alberta has a boat load of selfish people who do not care, and will go against recommendations. It’s not much different than seatbelts. This province was the last to implement them.
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Old 04-17-2021, 11:45 AM   #1642
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Common, this is 100% on the feds, and stop talking about Alberta, Ontario is in a completely state of emergency now, none of the provinces are doing well. We are still 42nd on the vaccine charts. I can forgive a lot if what Trudeau has done, but this all on him and Tam.

Where we are on the vaccine charts is a fact as sure as 2+2=4. Go ahead and Kelly Ann that with your own “facts” though.

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Old 04-17-2021, 12:00 PM   #1643
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How is it 100% the feds? If it was all provinces would have all variants.

I know at least 2 or three people who went on vacay against recommendations.

If the feds do lay down the law completely then the provinces scream bloody murder for by overreach.

Alberta has a boat load of selfish people who do not care, and will go against recommendations. It’s not much different than seatbelts. This province was the last to implement them.
Feds control borders. If they enforced a travel ban people couldn’t travel.

The alternative is allowing travel but enforcing quarantine at the Fed controlled border.

Its fairly clear whos fault it is. People are a holes yes, but we need a federal government to actually protect us from them.

BTW to answer your question Quebec, Alberta, BC and Ontario are all battling variants and what do they all have in common?

The only open international airports in Canada.
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Old 04-17-2021, 12:01 PM   #1644
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Common, this is 100% on the feds, and stop talking about Alberta, Ontario is in a completely state of emergency now, none of the provinces are doing well. We are still 45th on the vaccine charts. I can forgive a lot if what Trudeau has done, but this all on him and Tam.
LOL. Among the 50 or so countries of 1M+ people that are using peer-reviewed vaccines, Canada is currently 9th in doses administered per capita. And we're about 2 days worth of vaccinations out of the top 5. Canada is also 3rd in the G20 among doses per capita.
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Old 04-17-2021, 12:04 PM   #1645
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Miserable failure by all levels of government in Canada in managing the pandemic.

The buck stops at the top and Trudeau gets a big fat F.

My faith in the institutions set up to protect us is zero.

This goes beyond Canada. I used to have respect for the CDC and WHO. When the one event that was the reason d'etre for the creation of those bodies occurred, they turned out to be complete disasters as well.

Last edited by Manhattanboy; 04-17-2021 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 04-17-2021, 12:06 PM   #1646
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One other thing, assigning blame appropriately isn’t absolving others of it.

Rightly showing how the Liberals are costing thousands of lives with their ineptitude, isn’t saying Kenney and Ford are innocent. Or people for that matter.

Its a pyramid to me and it starts with the Feds failing, then the provinces, then people.

A sealed border is our first line of defense and it failed. Now the enemy has poured over the walls and total chaos is ensuing.

Feds were tasked solely with watching the wall, and the provinces aren’t moving people to the keep nor are many saying they’ll go willingly.

End result is this.
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Old 04-17-2021, 01:05 PM   #1647
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Variants are in most countries. The question is why are they spreading more in Canada than elsewhere, and that falls on provincial governments who thought we could reopen when only 1 in 30 people had been vaccinated.

Just to use P1 as an example, it was detected in the UK a couple of weeks after it was detected in Canada in February. So why does the UK still only have 40 cases of it while Canada has nearly 2000 and counting? It's because the BC government prioritized keeping Whistler running and did absolutely nothing to discourage travel to and from the resort, kept in-person dining open with no enforcement to prevent households mixing, and did absolutely nothing to address the risks that stem from workers living in shared housing who interact with the public daily.

So what happens? A massive outbreak of the P1 variant in Whistler that has now spread to Greater Vancouver (again, since the province did absolutely nothing to discourage travel to and from the resort) and now nearly 40% of all new cases in Vancouver appear to be the P1 variant. Do you think the UK was keeping resorts open and tacitly encouraging people to travel in February/March? No, they still had a stay at home order and had schools closed. And they still have stricter measures than BC does, even though their cases levels are less than 1/5th that of BC and they've given doses to half the population, because they're actually taking COVID seriously.
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Old 04-17-2021, 01:38 PM   #1648
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But again this goes back to a lack of planning and coordination from the federal government.
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Old 04-17-2021, 01:43 PM   #1649
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I don’t think we stand out positively or negatively from the rest of the world. If you look at Europe in general most countries are in a similar state in terms of deaths, vaccines, cases, restrictions. So Canada had an average response to Covid.

We weren’t a stand out like Australia, New Zealand, Canadas Maritime provinces, China (though using a nice degree of authoritarianism). And we aren’t having terrible outcomes like the US in deaths.

The changes people are suggesting like travel bans and more closures don’t appear to significantly change outcomes in non-Covid zero strategies. The mistake that was made by Canada was not pursuing Covid zero last June. (I didn’t think it was possible and agreed with the government at the time but it’s pretty clear now in hindsight.). The rest of the complaints fall within the margins of middle countries.

So do Canada fail? Yes along with most countries in the world.
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Old 04-17-2021, 01:49 PM   #1650
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Miserable failure by all levels of government in Canada in managing the pandemic.

The buck stops at the top and Trudeau gets a big fat F.

My faith in the institutions set up to protect us is zero.

This goes beyond Canada. I used to have respect for the CDC and WHO. When the one event that was the reason d'etre for the creation of those bodies occurred, they turned out to be complete disasters as well.
Agree on the WHO and Canada's response. But how much of the CDC's failure was from the beginning until November when the orange menace was the commander-in-chief?
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Old 04-17-2021, 02:51 PM   #1651
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All the finger pointing is fine. Monday morning quarterbacking, have a ball. My issue is where we are today - how do we fix this? And premiers ignoring their own health experts PROBABLY isn't the way to go.

In Ontario the science table made clear recommendations that would save lives. Shut down non-essential workplaces including warehouses. Only ABSOLUTELY essential places would remain open. Do we really need Staples, SportChek and Reitmans open right now? And for those absolutely essential places like grocery stores and pharmacies, the workers should have guaranteed job protection if they take off time if they are not feeling well and paid time off. But these recommendations were ignored and instead Ford is grasping at straws. Isaac Bogoch, the calm happy doctor you often see on TV explaining things throughout the epidemic is irate that Ontario has shut down outdoor recreation facilities and not allowing people to play tennis, use basketball courts, use soccer fields.... quoting him here: "The science is clear: Outdoor COVID transmission is extremely rare!"

It just seems to me that premier Ford is making stuff up so that it seems like he is doing *something* when he has no intention of doing the hard things that would cost money to big business. Shutting down the little guys he has no problem with, but shutting down big businesses and large factories and processing plants.... that's not gonna happen no matter how many doctors and science panels are begging for it.

Many doctors here are saying that since the new measures do nothing to protect the most vulnerable we are likely going to see 10,000 new cases per day. 15,000 is not out of the question. We are talking rationing of care right now as we are on the brink of full ICUs and adults being placed in children's hospitals.

Pointing fingers might be cathartic. But it does nothing in the here and now.
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Old 04-17-2021, 03:38 PM   #1652
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1486 new cases today. Sad when that is an improvement.
Active cases up 548
22 additional folks in hospital
3 more deaths
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Old 04-17-2021, 03:53 PM   #1653
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Once we git 450 in hospital (445 currently) do we go back to Step 0?
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Old 04-17-2021, 05:13 PM   #1654
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Isaac Bogoch, the calm happy doctor you often see on TV explaining things throughout the epidemic is irate that Ontario has shut down outdoor recreation facilities and not allowing people to play tennis, use basketball courts, use soccer fields.... quoting him here: "The science is clear: Outdoor COVID transmission is extremely rare!"

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and he's a good Calgary boy too!
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Old 04-17-2021, 05:24 PM   #1655
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Out in Ontario the last few days for work and have been listening to all this whats going on here. There has been a ton of talk about how many and even the biggest area of cases is the factories and warehouses. Yes I know we have several back home but driving around here the last few days got me really thinking how big and how many people must be working in these monster places. Saw the Heinz factory next door to me today that seems to go forever. The Chrysler plant, Ford plant a few days back and this aft the Wisers plant which would be cool to see and test out (LOL) and is way bigger than some we have. Maybe time for Alberta to wake up big time instead of just picking on the little guys that are just trying to have a decent life.
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Old 04-17-2021, 10:01 PM   #1656
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The owners of businesses and high priced properties in Whistler definitely have something on Horgan.

How it is that Whistler is exempt from the BC Speculation Tax is beyond comprehension.

Last edited by Manhattanboy; 04-17-2021 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 04-17-2021, 10:37 PM   #1657
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The owners of businesses and high priced properties in Whistler definitely have something on Horgan.

How it is that Whistler is exempt from the BC Speculation Tax is beyond comprehension.

Right thread?
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Old 04-18-2021, 01:08 AM   #1658
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Feds control borders. If they enforced a travel ban people couldn’t travel.

The alternative is allowing travel but enforcing quarantine at the Fed controlled border.

Its fairly clear whos fault it is. People are a holes yes, but we need a federal government to actually protect us from them.

BTW to answer your question Quebec, Alberta, BC and Ontario are all battling variants and what do they all have in common?

The only open international airports in Canada.
Fairly clear or 100% Federal? Which is it?
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Old 04-18-2021, 09:12 AM   #1659
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Once we git 450 in hospital (445 currently) do we go back to Step 0?
Was wondering that too. I have not heard definitively but Dr. Hinshaw has alluded to further restrictions if cases and hospitalizations continue to climb.
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Old 04-18-2021, 09:18 AM   #1660
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Early Reports of U.K. Variant's Lethality Appear Greatly Exaggerated


https://www.medpagetoday.com/infecti.../covid19/92057
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