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Old 04-16-2021, 03:05 PM   #3361
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Can anyone imagine the reaction in Alberta, if we had done what was needed to control covid, and the federal government turned around and took our vaccine allotment and gave it to Ontario?

It would be chaos here. It's tough to reward bad leadership in Ontario with vaccines meant for other places. Those people sacrificed to be in a good position too. Ideally we get the vaccines to the worst hit areas/people but that's definitely a tough line to walk.
IF the situation in Canada was that 9 provinces had COVID under total control and one didn't , I personally would understand the move to temporarily shift vaccine to the place that needed it- I get the optics would seem bad and it would be rewarding failure but there would also be a humanitarian issue (IMO) and I would have a hard time seeing the racialized frontline worker in Ontario (example) penalized so that some person in a covid free zone could get their vaccine


but that's not where we are at. we have bad to horrific COVID in at least 6 provinces that combined make up most of the population- this is a deck chairs on the titanic situation right now
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Old 04-16-2021, 03:18 PM   #3362
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What has the media done other than report the facts? Facts that are being wildly miss-interpreted yes but that's not on the media.
People largely gets its information from the media. Media has a responsibility to report objectively, not sensationalize.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7760045/a...clot-survivor/

Survivor of rare blood clot after AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine recalls ordeal

These types of headlines don't help anyone especially when the goal is to vaccinate everyone. The AZ stuff really shouldn't be making the news the way it is.

You didn't see waves of reports of Covid deaths due to blood clots prior to the vaccine. Most certainly nowhere near as close as the AZ hysteria being spread by the media currently. It's caught on, and now the misinformation is spreading like wildfire, with the media and officials trying to backtrack at the same time the vaccine is now banned in parts of the world due to this information.
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Old 04-16-2021, 03:27 PM   #3363
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Health authorities in countries aren't banning or restricting AZ because of anything the media is saying. They're doing it because it's quite possible that for a portion of the population, the risk of a severe adverse reaction is more likely than a severe outcome from COVID in the time period between when they could get an AZ dose vs. a Pfizer or Moderna dose. And by having this issue brought to light, doctors are now more aware of what to look out for which can make these reactions more treatable.

Honestly, the most misleading reporting I've seen on this is articles and infographics comparing the rate of blood clots from birth control or smoking to the rate from the vaccine, without putting to context the huge difference in severity and fatality rates between the different types of clots.

Ultimately, if we expect younger people to take COVID seriously because there's a small chance of them being seriously harmed, then we can't simultaneously expect them to ignore rare (but extremely serious) adverse reactions from the vaccine that occur at a similar rate.
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Old 04-16-2021, 03:28 PM   #3364
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Just to compare:

https://globalnews.ca/news/6650774/b...update-monday/

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COVID-19: B.C. announces Canada’s first coronavirus death
First covid death.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...case-1.5385816

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Vaccine-induced blood clots under more scrutiny as Canada reports first case
Tell me the media isn't sensationalizing the blood clot story.
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Old 04-16-2021, 03:42 PM   #3365
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Looks like another 300k+ day before we hit the weekend reporting doldrums.
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Old 04-16-2021, 04:02 PM   #3366
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Looks like another 300k+ day before we hit the weekend reporting doldrums.
yes, the rolling 7 day may slip slightly unless we (mostly BC at this point) can match last fridays 316k+
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Old 04-16-2021, 04:02 PM   #3367
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Originally Posted by looooob View Post
IF the situation in Canada was that 9 provinces had COVID under total control and one didn't , I personally would understand the move to temporarily shift vaccine to the place that needed it- I get the optics would seem bad and it would be rewarding failure but there would also be a humanitarian issue (IMO) and I would have a hard time seeing the racialized frontline worker in Ontario (example) penalized so that some person in a covid free zone could get their vaccine


but that's not where we are at. we have bad to horrific COVID in at least 6 provinces that combined make up most of the population- this is a deck chairs on the titanic situation right now
I absolutely agree if it was only Ontario struggling it's a different story. Ideally it goes to the hardest hit areas, and the people most in need, but we know that isn't going to happen. When other areas are getting hit hard, or are about to get very hard it's difficult to justify. We shouldn't even be at this point, it's absolutely ridiculous how silly this has gotten with politicians and citizens ignoring clear data, and recommendations.
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Old 04-16-2021, 04:29 PM   #3368
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Originally Posted by Firebot View Post
Just to compare:

https://globalnews.ca/news/6650774/b...update-monday/



First covid death.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...case-1.5385816



Tell me the media isn't sensationalizing the blood clot story.
Ugh yeah headline writing is the great failure of the media. I will agree to that. We see across all reporting, even in sports.
And sadly the reporters rarely write the headlines.

And the failure of the audience is that they often don't look past the headline.

I think the media gets to much blame but I'm also biased having worked in the profession. I think most are just trying to get accurate information out there.
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Old 04-16-2021, 04:52 PM   #3369
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Another good day for Alberta - 39k in arms. At todayís rate of injection we have 9.5 days of supply.

More or less back on track. Itís unfortunate that the AZ isnít being utilized very well. One positive of that is that it means Alberta has an additional 5k/7k of capacity to bring on which may needed needed soon with the Pfizer ramp up.

At todayís vaccination rate we are 51.3 days away from having 80% of adults receive their first dose.
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Old 04-16-2021, 05:04 PM   #3370
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yes, the rolling 7 day may slip slightly unless we (mostly BC at this point) can match last fridays 316k+
ok BC and NFLD delivered and dragged Canada over 320k , so the 7 day goes up again. this is the 2nd highest day ever, and really the 'highest' as the record day (Monday of this week) included 3 BC days and 2 Alberta days IIRC


the milestones for today included crossing 22% in the tracker, and now also over 25k total doses / 100k population nationwide
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Old 04-16-2021, 07:44 PM   #3371
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Got my first dose today!!! Thank you science, thank you healthcare workers.
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Old 04-16-2021, 08:13 PM   #3372
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Mrs Duke and I got poked last night. I have a very physical job and was fine today. Not arm pain at all. She has MS and normally feels like hot garbage after yearly flu shots but was fine today as well.

If you go through the AB website and select pharmacy and choose the Telus Convention Center, there are LOTS of openings as early as April 23rd Really good set up down there too. 10/10 would recommend.
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Old 04-17-2021, 07:44 AM   #3373
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Hota suggested one approach could be offering the shot to younger men, since the rare side-effect seems to be more prevalent in women.
Health Canada has deemed the AstraZeneca vaccine safe, saying the benefits outweigh the risks.
The National Advisory Committee on Immunization has not yet changed its recommendation that the shot only be offered to those 55 and up, but the decision ultimately rests with provinces.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...tors-1.5991825


So it seems if Alberta wanted to, we could open AZ up to whoever we wanted(over 18, presumably). I think it's time to expand this group.
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Old 04-17-2021, 07:51 AM   #3374
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Originally Posted by Firebot View Post
Just to compare:

https://globalnews.ca/news/6650774/b...update-monday/



First covid death.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...case-1.5385816



Tell me the media isn't sensationalizing the blood clot story.
This is 100% true. Itís reckless to sensationalize risk without context.

If people are worried about blood clot risks from Covid vaccines, they should avoid campfires.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsl...m-for-my-heart

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Burning wood releases a bevy of gases and particles into the air. The gases include irritating or toxic gases such as nitrogen dioxide and carbon monoxide. The most hazardous particles are the tiniest, those with a diameter of 2.5 millionths of a meter or less (called PM2.5 for short). Too small for your nose and airways to filter out, these particles settle deep in the lungs. They deliver toxins riding on their surfaces to unprotected tissue and can migrate into the circulatory system. In addition to causing breathing problems, PM2.5 promotes the formation of blood clots inside arteries, riles up inflammation, increases the fragility of cholesterol-filled plaques inside arteries, and contributes to heart-rhythm problems.
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Old 04-17-2021, 09:37 AM   #3375
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Can we quit comparing AZ to other things that cause blood clots. That is a complete misunderstanding on how to apply risk in this case. This is somewhat ironic in that it keeps coming up in posts criticizing the media for sensationalizing the risk.

The risk of the AZ vaccine causing clots / complications should be compared to the risk of getting / complications / dying from Covid in the space of time between when a person could get AZ and a person can get Pfizer.

It doesn’t matter if BC or camp fires or smoking or whatever else causes more blood clots. That’s like saying about 1% of people die each year anyways Life is more dangerous so don’t worry about Covid. Risks need to be compared with the alternative.

So in somewhere like Australia where Covid is well controlled you likely wouldn’t take an AZ vaccine if you are under 40.

In the US where there is access for anyone who wants it in most places to pfizer right now you wouldn’t take AZ

In Canada you are looking at maybe a month delay for AZ which depending on age and location would either make it make sense or not to take AZ.

This is much more nuanced then the media or the above posts make it out to be.

That said they need to open it up to the next age band as over 40 risks of Covid for one month appear to outweigh the blood clot risk.
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Old 04-17-2021, 09:41 AM   #3376
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I agree that - that's the nuanced math that should be done but the public doesn't consume content in that way. The messages needs to be boiled down to something that is still true but represents the essence of what needs to be communicated: which is that AZ is pretty damn safe for most people.

The math also needs to include the relative benefit of more people taking AZ to everyone else. By expanding AZ and motivating people to take it - each of those individuals gets out of the queue for the other vaccines.

Everyone gets their shot sooner. If I get AZ (I'm 45 so can't currently but would if it opened up) I get my shot sooner (AZ) and my wife gets her shot sooner (whatever she ends up getting).

Win-win.

That should be part of the message too. At least give people the option.
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Old 04-17-2021, 09:47 AM   #3377
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Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina View Post
I agree that - that's the nuanced math that should be done but the public doesn't consume content in that way. The messages needs to be boiled down to something that is still true but represents the essence of what needs to be communicated: which is that AZ is pretty damn safe for most people.

The math also needs to include the relative benefit of more people taking AZ to everyone else. By expanding AZ and motivating people to take it - each of those individuals gets out of the queue for the other vaccines.

Everyone gets their shot sooner. If I get AZ (I'm 45 so can't currently but would if it opened up) I get my shot sooner (AZ) and my wife gets her shot sooner (whatever she ends up getting).

Win-win.

That should be part of the message too. At least give people the option.
AZ along with health authorities have done a terrible job of messaging.
And it dragged J&J down with them.
And hurts with the vaccine hesitant.
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Old 04-17-2021, 10:04 AM   #3378
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The likely lower efficacy of AstraZeneca also probably plays a role in people's hesitation. If we get broad enough population coverage that COVID cases drop to basically nothing, then it doesn't really matter what vaccine you got. But there are obviously situations where it might matter, like if we don't get enough coverage and it's still circulating somewhat, if you travel to areas where there's a lack of coverage (parts of the US are seeing a drop in demand at 30% coverage), or if we're continually dealing with variants (the mRNA vaccines are likely superior at handling those).
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Old 04-17-2021, 10:25 AM   #3379
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I haven't checked the actual studies (it is a pre-print anyhow) so taking with a grain of salt, but I've seen a few articles that seem to say the blood clot risk from Pfizer/Moderna is pretty close to AstraZeneca (4 in 1 million vs 5 in 1 million) but both are way lower than the blood clot risk from actually getting Covid.


E.g. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccine-blood-clots-study-pfizer-astrazeneca-moderna-oxford/
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Old 04-17-2021, 10:53 AM   #3380
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That's the kind of messaging I'm talking about.
Like the release in the last week saying 6600 fully vaccinated people got covid in the US. And the first thing I read over and over on some platforms is 'see, why bother?'.
The correct messaging is 'while the virus is 95% successful in clinic trials, the real world data indicates that only 1 in 12,000 vaccinated people contracted covid. Obviously, that is spinning the numbers, because only 1 in x unvaccinated got covid during that time frame, but the point remains.
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