2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[868904]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Brodie for Nylander, guys? Let's try to at least pretend to be objective in this.

Nylander is no Hall and in my mind Brodie is still better than Larsson.

Even if The Hall trade is one sided, that doesn't mean Nylander for Brodie is. I think the value is pretty close. It's a hell of a lot closer than a Hart trophy nominee for a 2nd pairing defensive defensman.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by 868904

Funny how making or not making the playoffs changes everything.

Before the season started, no one here would accept Kapanen + for Brodie, now all the Flames players suck and all the leafs players are gold, even though the Leafs are being slapped around silly by the Bruins.

Change the coach first before you make any major personnel changes. God, it's like GG devalued every flames by 50%. Thanks Glen.

Exactly. Fans are so short-sighted, and what-have-you-done-for-me-lately rules the day.

Brodie isn't worthless because he had a tough season, he is worth what his potential going forward is.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Change the coach first before you make any major personnel changes. God, it's like GG devalued every flames by 50%. Thanks Glen.

That's unfortunately our double edged sword this off season. We were a team that needed to upgrade a couple positions regardless of results, but Glen's systems forced the team into having to upgrade the roster WHILE devaluing most of the players we would have wanted to trade.

Now we go into a critical part of the rebuild needing to get better but technically needing to get some success under a few player's belts under a new coach to maximize trade value.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Exactly. Fans are so short-sighted, and what-have-you-done-for-me-lately rules the day.

Brodie isn't worthless because he had a tough season, he is worth what his potential going forward is.

I agree with a lot of your posts and your view of this team and what it needs to do, but can't agree with your take on Brodie. Two subpar seasons at his age is more than enough to bring his value down league wide.

Teams aren't going to pay for what he was three years ago or what he could possibly return to, they're going to value him at what he has shown for quite awhile, unfortunately.

The good news being that a top four D-man is still a valuable asset, so we can likely get something decent.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by jayswin

That's unfortunately our double edged sword this off season. We were a team that needed to upgrade a couple positions regardless of results, but Glen's systems forced the team into having to upgrade the roster WHILE devaluing most of the players we would have wanted to trade.

Now we go into a critical part of the rebuild needing to get better but technically needing to get some success under a few player's belts under a new coach to maximize trade value.

This is what doesn't make complete sense to me.

On one hand, there are posters stating that GMs of other teams won't make trades like the Hall-Larsson one because they are smarter than that.

On the other hand, posters are stating that one bad season for some of the Flames player has devalued the player because of Gulutzan. Don't you think other GMs realize the tire fire in Calgary and recognize that the player's have more capability than what was shown this year?

I can't say that I know what the value of the Flames player is. However, I think it is unfair to say that GMs won't make irrational decisions but then act irrationally when looking at players based off one down year. This is also on the assumption that I don't think Brodie was that bad two seasons ago. Just last year, most posters were stating that Calgary has the "best" defensive core in the league.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I agree with a lot of your posts and your view of this team and what it needs to do, but can't agree with your take on Brodie. Two subpar seasons at his age is more than enough to bring his value down league wide.

Teams aren't going to pay for what he was three years ago or what he could possibly return to, they're going to value him at what he has shown for quite awhile, unfortunately.

The good news being that a top four D-man is still a valuable asset, so we can likely get something decent.

And that's fair. But if I'm the GM, and his value has dropped as much as you suggest, I simply don't trade him. (But I don't think it has)

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by 868904

Nylander is no Hall and in my mind Brodie is still better than Larsson.

Even if The Hall trade is one sided, that doesn't mean Nylander for Brodie is. I think the value is pretty close. It's a hell of a lot closer than a Hart trophy nominee for a 2nd pairing defensive defensman.

Well hey, as crazy as I think you guys are - If Nylander (A 60 point, 21 year old) is available for Brodie then I hope to god Treliving could pull it off.

We'd basically be acquiring a scoring forward, 8th overall pick that's appearing to live up to his draft position, which should cost a lot more than that. Teams usually intentionally tank for years to get these types of prospects.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And that's fair. But if I'm the GM, and his value has dropped as much as you suggest, I simply don't trade him. (But I don't think it has)

Fair enough, and like I said I don't care about being right on a message board, I care about the Flames getting better, so I hope you're right!

[yourbestfriend]

I don't think it's too far fetched to say that Marner/Nylander have give or take the same value as Tkachuk. The former are probably more offensively gifted but don't bring the intangibles that Tkachuk brings.
In general, not a whole lot separating them from a value perspective.

Now, hypothetically, if Brodie were on a different team, would you trade Tkachuk for him? That's what I thought. No way the Leaf's trade Marner/Nylander for Brodie.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by keenan87

I understand but I think Hamilton is part of the solution.

24 year old, big, 50 point dman. He hasn't even reached his prime yet. I think he will be a Top 3 dman in the league a few years from now.

Brodie is no worse than Larsson who got Hall.

I really like Brodie but Larsson is not chopped liver.


Larsson a career +44 in 7 years on not so good teams. He is 25 and has 3 years left at 4.17 M contract. 5 years at the time of the trade He plays a very physical game averaging over 3 hits a game.

The Oilers got Larsson and 1.8 M/yr in cap space for Hall.


He is a top pairing d-man that played 13 playoff games and was really good playing against big forwards on San Jose and the Ducks that had just run over the Flames.

I would trade Hamonic for him in an instant (and I am told that Hamonic is easily worth a 10th-12th pick overall and a couple of seconds).

As highly I think of Brodie I doubt that the Flames get an unprotected first (from a bubble team) and a couple of seconds for him.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No way you give up Brodie or Hamonic, on their contracts, for Kapanen.

If the Leafs want to immeditely upgrade their D, they are going to have to give up a good player.

kylington for kapanen might be more realistic

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by yourbestfriend

I don't think it's too far fetched to say that Marner/Nylander have give or take the same value as Tkachuk. The former are probably more offensively gifted but don't bring the intangibles that Tkachuk brings.
In general, not a whole lot separating them from a value perspective.

Now, hypothetically, if Brodie were on a different team, would you trade Tkachuk for him? That's what I thought. No way the Leaf's trade Marner/Nylander for Brodie.

First of all, we don't desperately need D.

Second, we are short forwards, so we wouldn't be quick to trade away our 2nd best.

Third, Nylander is NOT Tkachuk. Not even close. Nylander is similar to a young Eberle.

You can build a team around Tkachuk. I would not recommend trying to build a team around Nylander (or Marner either, for that matter).

Or to put it another way: would you trade Tkachuk for Nylander?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TOfan

kylington for kapanen might be more realistic

yes

[Enoch Root]

No Ricardodw, Larsson iis not a top pairing D-man. He is a 2nd pairing D-man on any respectable roster.

Hamonic and Larsson are very close comparables, IMO.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by yourbestfriend

I don't think it's too far fetched to say that Marner/Nylander have give or take the same value as Tkachuk. The former are probably more offensively gifted but don't bring the intangibles that Tkachuk brings.
In general, not a whole lot separating them from a value perspective.

Now, hypothetically, if Brodie were on a different team, would you trade Tkachuk for him? That's what I thought. No way the Leaf's trade Marner/Nylander for Brodie.

Exactly. Why would the leafs trade mariner or nylander who are 6-7 years younger than Brodie? It's not even a conversation. The leafs would immediately ask for Hamilton or hang up the phone.

Said it before, if the Flames are moving Brodie, I would try packaging him with Jankowski for RoR and see if you can get a pick coming back.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by yourbestfriend

I don't think it's too far fetched to say that Marner/Nylander have give or take the same value as Tkachuk. The former are probably more offensively gifted but don't bring the intangibles that Tkachuk brings.
In general, not a whole lot separating them from a value perspective.

Now, hypothetically, if Brodie were on a different team, would you trade Tkachuk for him? That's what I thought. No way the Leaf's trade Marner/Nylander for Brodie.

Or even just keeping it the same, would people accept gardiner for tkachuk?

Brodie at this point is a 2nd pairing d man who is regressing the last 2 seasons, nylander is a top line winger

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

What defenseman on the Nucks would you trade for Nylander?

You and DeluxeMustache are over-rating the value of Nylander. He is a small, one-dimensional scoring winger. He is similar to Eberle, prior to the Oilers completely ruining Eberle.

Defensemen are more in demand than wingers.

Id trade any of them

The leafs wouldnt accept though

[Computerjungle]

HAs a Canadian team ever won a trade with the leafs. The Canadian media tends to overhype the leaf players.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by Computerjungle

HAs a Canadian team ever won a trade with the leafs. The Canadian media tends to overhype the leaf players.

I understand what you are saying but I think the fans have generally been right about trades with Toronto. For example, I don't recall being happy after the Phaneuf deal.

As for the current leafs team, I think Marner, Matthews, and Nylander are all great players. However, I also think they need defense.

To Leafs:
TJ Brodie/Travis Hamonic
Sam Bennett

To Flames:
William Nylander
2nd Round Pick

How would people feel about that deal? Gives them another young forward that may pan out.

Then, sign: Evander Kane

Gaudreau-Monahan-Nylander (skill)
Tkachuk-Jankowski-Kane (big)
Ferland-Backlund-Foo (defense)
Mangiapane/Hathaway-Lazar-Frolik (energy)

Giordano-Hamilton
Brodie/Hamonic-Andersson
Kulak-Stone
Wotherspoon

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by d_phaneuf

Or even just keeping it the same, would people accept gardiner for tkachuk?

Brodie at this point is a 2nd pairing d man who is regressing the last 2 seasons, nylander is a top line winger

Hard to say because Tkachuk is a better player than Nylander. He may not get as many regular season points but he's going to provide leadership and intangibles that Nylander will never have in his game. Nylander like his dad will provide you with points and not a lot more and not a guy you count on to be a leader or come up big in big games. Not saying Nylander isn't a nice player but he's always going to be a complementary guy like Jordan Eberle. We just saw what Eberle fetched and it wasn't that much.