[Rumour] Majority of Flames players did not like Hamilton, Brouwer or the coaching staff

[Geeoff]

Hamilton seems like an odd duck in the mold of Olli Jokinen and Ilya Bryzgalov. If you're a professional athlete with millions of dollars on the line, when it's game time, you're usually taking things very seriously. So, I can see how a goofy guy like that would get on their nerves sometimes.

[FanIn80]

I get that normally a team that hates all its coaches would be a warning flag, but in their defence, it's not like we're hiring Scotty Bowman clones here. We're talking about one coach that had to work in Europe because he couldn't get an NHL job, and another one who just has no business being a head coach anywhere.

And now we have another coach without any kind of established credibility.

My question is this: Why put all the effort into building a talented team, just to skimp out on the guy in charge of deploying and managing that team?

Like, I don't get it. Do we (GM/Owners) don't believe that you also need a great ("good" at the very least) coach to be a great team? Are we of the mindset that it's 90% players and 10% coach? You can have the best player in the history of the game on your team, but if your coach decides to sit him and have a defenceman take his place in the shootout in the biggest game of the season... what good is that?


/end rant

[Toonage]

^ 2 things possibly at play here

1. Ownership doesn't want to pay for an established coach. This has been beaten to death so I won't rehash it.
2. Treliving has a particular style he wants the team to play which he feels will be successful and while GG coached it, there were issues so he found a guy who coaches the same style but has more sandpaper in his personality.

I also subscribe to the belief that had Peters been available in 2016, GG would never have been hired.

[Flash Walken]

Good coaches cost money. The best coaches cost the most money.

To beat out Montreal, Chicago, Tampa, San Jose, Los Angeles etc etc, you're going to have to offer EVEN MORE money.

Money, Money, Money, Money-eyyyyy-Everybody's got a price.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I wonder how tied Burke and Brouwer were.

I've seen comments like this elsewhere referencing both Brouwer and Gulutzan. And, honestly, I've never really understood the desire to try and blame Burke for Treliving's mistakes. Well, I do understand it, but I don't believe it is valid.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Treliving didn't tell GG to have Brouwer take 3 face offs in a row against Buffalo.

Extreme example but the coach clearly had a trust/like of Brouwer.

Some of this is coaching - some of this was clear flaws in the roster that Treliving went out and also corrected this offseason.

We had no RH players to take important faceoffs on in the right defensive circle last season - only Brouwer (46.5%) and Lazar (39.7%) (338 Faceoffs combined) were available to GG.

So big issue at the end of that game was if you wanted a RH player to take that faceoff on his strong side your only options were Brouwer/Lazar - or have Monahan/Backlund take it on their weaker side. (Agree though after it lost the first two on that same side he probably should have tried something different).

Treliving went out and acquired Lindholm (54.5%) & Ryan (56.5%) (1733 FOs combined) as a clear solution to what was a hole on the roster last season.

And the other thing with the Brouwer trust by GG was that our forward depth was just so poor. Brouwer was 8th on the team in total TOI among forwards BUT the only regular players (30+ GP) lower than him were Janko, Stajan, Hathaway, & Lazar. Not exactly a murderers row.

The Flames just didn't have a lot of options or depth at forward last year and in the end that was the biggest focus of Treliving this offseason and also probably a big reason GG isn't the head coach anymore.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I've seen comments like this elsewhere referencing both Brouwer and Gulutzan. And, honestly, I've never really understood the desire to try and blame Burke for Treliving's mistakes. Well, I do understand it, but I don't believe it is valid.

Not trying to assign blame, but in a review process it might matter when it comes to assessing the quality of the team he's had a hand in building.

Last year was a ####ty year from an organizational perspective. I'm sure parting ways was mutual, but I do also think that the organization moving on from Brouwer and Burke in the same offseason is probably related somehow.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Treliving didn't tell GG to have Brouwer take 3 face offs in a row against Buffalo.

Extreme example but the coach clearly had a trust/like of Brouwer.

That’ and our lack of right shot forwards that can take draws

[CroFlames]

I view that as a failure of GG. You don't NEED to have a right shot take the faceoff on the strong side.

You think Crosby gets skipped over for important faceoffs because he's a lefty?

Sure it's nice if you have someone naturally capable and shoots right, but give me a break. You throw out your best or 2nd best faceoff guy regardless of shot for important draws.

Same goes for the ridiculous LH RH for d-pairings. Sometimes it's nice, but square peg man.

[Toonage]

^ 100% bang on

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I get that normally a team that hates all its coaches would be a warning flag, but in their defence, it's not like we're hiring Scotty Bowman clones here. We're talking about one coach that had to work in Europe because he couldn't get an NHL job, and another one who just has no business being a head coach anywhere.

And now we have another coach without any kind of established credibility.

I don't think that is entirely fair. Bill Peters has won a Memorial Cup, a gold medal at the WHC, and he was behind the bench of the gold-medal-winning Canadian World Cup team in 2016 alongside Mike Babcock, Claude Julien, Barry Trotz, and Joel Quenneville. He may not have had a lot of NHL success yet, but I would say that is an impressive resume that bespeaks a considerable level of credibility.

My question is this: Why put all the effort into building a talented team, just to skimp out on the guy in charge of deploying and managing that team?

Like, I don't get it. Do we (GM/Owners) don't believe that you also need a great ("good" at the very least) coach to be a great team? Are we of the mindset that it's 90% players and 10% coach? You can have the best player in the history of the game on your team, but if your coach decides to sit him and have a defenceman take his place in the shootout in the biggest game of the season... what good is that?


/end rant

I think the question of money is legitimate, but I am less convinced that was the primary motive behind Treliving's latest coaching hire. Based on the timeline from the end of the season to Peters's hire it seems pretty clear to me that he was deliberately targeted by Treliving. I think that while he was probably going to replace Gulutzan in any event, the moment that Peters became available Treliving moved to secure the coach that he wanted. Rightly or wrongly the GM pretty clearly believes that Bill Peters is the best coach to lead this team.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I view that as a failure of GG. You don't NEED to have a right shot take the faceoff on the strong side.

You think Crosby gets skipped over for important faceoffs because he's a lefty?

Sure it's nice if you have someone naturally capable and shoots right, but give me a break. You throw out your best or 2nd best faceoff guy regardless of shot for important draws.

Same goes for the ridiculous LH RH for d-pairings. Sometimes it's nice, but square peg man.

Gulutzan's inability to adapt was his biggest downfall in my opinion. The complete lack of trying different forward lines, different d pairings, different PP personnel (leaving the league's top D scoring threats off the top PP for months) were frustrating to watch.


Glad he got canned!

[AC]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I view that as a failure of GG. You don't NEED to have a right shot take the faceoff on the strong side.

You think Crosby gets skipped over for important faceoffs because he's a lefty?

Sure it's nice if you have someone naturally capable and shoots right, but give me a break. You throw out your best or 2nd best faceoff guy regardless of shot for important draws.

Same goes for the ridiculous LH RH for d-pairings. Sometimes it's nice, but square peg man.

That was the game Backlund took a late penalty heading into OT so he wasn't an option. Stajan and Janko were both 1/3 against ROR.

However Monahan was 2/3 against O'Reilly during the game. Instead, playing Brouwer for almost 3 whole minutes while losing all 3 faceoffs... brilliant.

[Bingo]

Crosby is actually 3% better on his offside than his natural side ... kid is a freak.

Oddy enough the Flames had a solution that wasn't either identified or utilized. Bennett was 54% on his natural side and 55% on his off hand.

Backlund was like Crosby and is better against the grain, but he took so many damn silly penalties last year that Brouwer was thrust into situations that wouldn't have been needed including the fateful game against Buffalo

Jankowksi gets mashed on his off hand.

But Monahan is actually a plus on his off hand as well.

[dammage79]

Well, there's no excuses now. Coaches and their stubborness to stick with broken things are gone. Hamiltons "uppity loner" attitude is gone.

Peters sounds like he's going to be using his blender maybe too much all season, so guys like Bennett are going to get opportunities.

This brouwer stuff coming to light makes me think Rychel is the guy that has something to prove and will go wreck people taking liberties on the star players.

And we will save 3m in the process.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't think that is entirely fair. Bill Peters has won a Memorial Cup, a gold medal at the WHC, and he was behind the bench of the gold-medal-winning Canadian World Cup team in 2016 alongside Mike Babcock, Claude Julien, Barry Trotz, and Joel Quenneville. He may not have had a lot of NHL success yet, but I would say that is an impressive resume that bespeaks a considerable level of credibility.

I have an open mind on Peters and really hope he'll be good but IMO you are understating the elephant in the room. Junior success and WHC success pale in comparison to zero for 4 in making the NHL playoffs. It's not that he hasn't had a lot of NHL success He hasn't had any in four seasons as a head coach. That is going to be the talking point until he gets a team into the playoffs.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I have an open mind on Peters and really hope he'll be good but IMO you are understating the elephant in the room. Junior success and WHC success pale in comparison to zero for 4 in making the NHL playoffs. It's not that he hasn't had a lot of NHL success He hasn't had any in four seasons as a head coach. That is going to be the talking point until he gets a team into the playoffs.

Did anyone see that Canes team as having a playoff roster for those 4 years? I sure didn't.
Particularly with that goaltending
I get he needs to show he can get to the playoffs but it isn't like the Canes were a team that disappointed under his coaching tenure. It was a bad roster.

[dammage79]

If peters and ward fail with this roster, we'll know hes a bad coach. Thats like the best FW group ive seen on the Flames since god the late 80's. In term of completeness and depth.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by dammage79

If peters and ward fail with this roster, we'll know hes a bad coach. Thats like the best FW group ive seen on the Flames since god the late 80's. In term of completeness and depth.

This roster should win a playoff series at minimum.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by AC

That was the game Backlund took a late penalty heading into OT so he wasn't an option. Stajan and Janko were both 1/3 against ROR.

However Monahan was 2/3 against O'Reilly during the game. Instead, playing Brouwer for almost 3 whole minutes while losing all 3 faceoffs... brilliant.

We now know that Monahan was also severely injured... maybe GG wasn't confident in his health.

Regardless, he should have gone with Stajan - actual centerman and plays defensively.