Aviation Appreciation Station

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

Porter Airlines orders the C-series and wants to expand to Calgary and more

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...medium=twitter

This will add a very interesting mix to the Canadian airline industry if the runway extension is approved.

Probably the only time in their life that Westjet and AirCanada would be on the same side as the GTA NIMBYs

[Ryan Coke]

The hurdles to this becoming reality are quite large....both political/legal, as well as financial.

[Bigtime]

Oh man is the fight going to be epic about operating these out of YTZ. Get your bag of popcorn ready, the anti-airport rhetoric crowd is going to go into overdrive on this one.

[KelVarnsen]

One hell of a gamble by Porter, going to interesting to see how it works out.

[Bigtime]

On some of the aviation forums I see a lot of talk about how the political landscape now would be much more in favour of allowing this at YTZ than back in the past and the battles to just get the Q400's there.

[sa226]

It seems rather strange that they would make this type of commitment with such huge hurdles to overcome.

The biggest reason for their success is YTZ. But the service they offer on the type of routes is what brings people back.

You would imagine there is a backup plan.

For a long time there has been grumblings and speculation on how they have remained successful. The regional game is fickle regardless of clientele. It seems out of the ordinary that in these days of cost cutting, Porter offers something completely different and has remained afloat doing it.

That isn't really a criticism. Pretty much the only reason I didn't apply to or work there is my complete lack of desire to move to Toronto.

[Bigtime]

Have they really been successful though? A couple of failed IPO attempts, very low load factors compared to AC and WS, and I don't think they've ever publicly released their financials.

Still I wish them luck and hope things come to fruition with this new plan. Personally I'd love a non-stop YYC-YTZ flight.

[sa226]

Yeah successful was a poor choice of word. I meant "still in business"

Though it can be argued that in the airline industry "still in business" is the threshold of success.

[Bigtime]

^^ Isn't that the truth!

[Bunk]

Ugh, it's going to the the 2003 Toronto Civic Election all over again.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Have they really been successful though? A couple of failed IPO attempts, very low load factors compared to AC and WS, and I don't think they've ever publicly released their financials.

Still I wish them luck and hope things come to fruition with this new plan. Personally I'd love a non-stop YYC-YTZ flight.

They are privately funded, if after 5 years they werent profitable I cant see the investors sticking around.

My guess is they are likely as profitable as WJ on a per seat mile basis. Lower because of the regional, but high because of the Q400 and the likely premium they can charge from YTZ.

As for political climate, I dont see this going through even with a mayor and a few councillors on board. This might turn into a full on mayoral debate which could unite the larger left into 1 voice which would easily defeat Rob Ford, where as fractured Ford still has a chance to win. Pretty big political gamble by Ford IMO.

The one thing going for Porter is if they have been good corporate citizens, then the people who rallied against them when they first started can now be easily discredited so they will need to come up with a new group of detractors.

[Bigtime]

Don't be so quick to think that operating out of YTZ is dead in the water. Porter has worked miracles like this before, and once again they have an order with a Canadian company to add even more pressure to the mix (~$2B order).

I wouldn't bet my money on it, but I got a feeling Porter is going to pull this off. Unless the whole letter of intent to buy the C-100's is just bait to get WestJet to buy them finally.

[KelVarnsen]

They are probably going to have to give concessions for YTZ. Allowing WS, and AC in there for more routes.

[Bigtime]

I would assume letting WS in means Encore and their Q400's.

[KelVarnsen]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

I would assume letting WS in means Encore and their Q400's.

No, I want 737s at YTZ. Yes I mean Encore.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

The worry is letting the CS100 in, all jet will be allowed in, including loud private jets.

Porter needs to focus on the problem. Noise.

Have the regs list planes that are under a certain decibel level. This will allow for the expansion, protect the noise for the downtown residents AND have the added benefit of having another alternate runway for Pearson.

Really shouldn't be a hard argument if there is a solution presented while protecting the spirit of the law.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Also, I won't be surprised if Bombardier gave Porter a conditional clause letting them out of the contract if they don't get approval.

It's also in Bombardier's best interest to expand their market.

[Madman]

I thought the big thing with the C100 is that they claim it to be quieter than a turbo prop.

http://cseries.com/info/en/#/cseries...quietaircraft/

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Madman

I thought the big thing with the C100 is that they claim it to be quieter than a turbo prop.

http://cseries.com/info/en/#/cseries...quietaircraft/

It may be, but the issue (so I'm told) that if you let one jet in, you let them all in. Hence my argument to make the regs reflect notice levels not engine type.

[Madman]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

It may be, but the issue (so I'm told) that if you let one jet in, you let them all in. Hence my argument to make the regs reflect notice levels not engine type.

Gotcha, I didn't read misunderstood your reply.