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Old 05-13-2024, 02:33 PM   #6081
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Update. It's official

https://twitter.com/user/status/1790113918368481668
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Old 05-13-2024, 02:48 PM   #6082
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We could have done a LOT worse. I'll take it.
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Old 05-13-2024, 02:56 PM   #6083
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Marsch chose Canada over South Korea. Press release goes into pretty significant detail on the hiring process, and the following is very interesting...

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The appointment of Marsch is assisted by major philanthropic contributions from the owners of the three Canadian-based MLS clubs – Vancouver Whitecaps, Joey Saputo, and Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment – and supplemented by other private donors. In recognition of their significant philanthropic support, Marsch’s position will be formally titled as the MLS Canada Men’s National Team Head Coach during the term of his initial contract. This type of donor recognition is common at universities and hospitals, in NCAA sports, and is starting to be used in the Canadian sport system – for example, with the Stollery Family Women’s National Team Head Coach support at Golf Canada.

These commitments are part of a forthcoming major gifts program that will provide Canadian philanthropists with a structured opportunity to support Canada Soccer programs of all types – including the Men’s and Women’s National Team systems, from youth teams up through the senior national teams.
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Old 05-13-2024, 03:02 PM   #6084
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I like the appointment. He’s familiar with the Canadian landscape, knows Concacaf and has lots of European experience

And if he wants to go full Red Bull press then we should have the athletes to do so
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Old 05-13-2024, 03:04 PM   #6085
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So the 3 Canadian MLS clubs are paying Marsch's salary?
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Old 05-13-2024, 03:11 PM   #6086
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That's interesting. Bit of a conflict on player selection? But better than not getting it done / being stuck with an inexperienced manager. Continually astounded by the lack of money for the flagship program in canadian mens soccer. My dream is that in future they can monetize the home games and eventually the tv rights when they get them back enough to self sustain that program. Our full men's national team being funded by little kid's soccer registration money is embarrassing. Also not a fan of the mens and womens teams players pushing for more money to rep their country recently pressurizing the picture even more. I know it's an old school take but I don't think you should be paid to play NT football, if you don't want to play for the NT to rep your country pro bono, don't accept a callup and just play club football.
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Old 05-13-2024, 03:43 PM   #6087
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Quote:
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That's interesting. Bit of a conflict on player selection? But better than not getting it done / being stuck with an inexperienced manager. Continually astounded by the lack of money for the flagship program in canadian mens soccer. My dream is that in future they can monetize the home games and eventually the tv rights when they get them back enough to self sustain that program. Our full men's national team being funded by little kid's soccer registration money is embarrassing. Also not a fan of the mens and womens teams players pushing for more money to rep their country recently pressurizing the picture even more. I know it's an old school take but I don't think you should be paid to play NT football, if you don't want to play for the NT to rep your country pro bono, don't accept a callup and just play club football.
The TV rights to the national teams are worthless. They shouldn't be, but our networks have determined that as the case for decades.

There's no money in this game at any level unless you have a big money owner willing to light money on fire for a vanity project. National teams, youth national teams, clubs, amateur, etc. It's always been that way and until enough people open their wallets it won't change. And to be blunt, soccer fans are cheap.

I agree with you in that playing for the national teams should be about representing your country and not money but that view has long passed.
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Old 05-13-2024, 04:35 PM   #6088
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I don't have any figures but it sure has sounded like with all the complaining about Rob Friend and Canadian Soccer Business that they have been making a ton of cash from the NT media and sponsorship rights when the NT went on a run and made the world cup. Maybe that's mostly sponsorship?

For me they made a smart deal and bet on the NT when nobody else was willing to, and they've invested a ton of their earnings back into the CPL. Good for them and better than the money going to a bunch of CSA board people more interested in luxury tickets to world cups for themselves and the old boys back at their provincial association.
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Old 05-13-2024, 04:59 PM   #6089
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Haven't been able to find anything in the financial statements, but I think part of the problem is that there is a perception that it's a lot of money. It is not, although my statement would be better with some numbers. But as an example, OneSoccer gave TSN the rights to Christine Sinclair's final game for free and paid to produce it. That is how the game is viewed in this country, networks won't pay for a game to say goodbye to the person who's done more for it than anyone else. TSN doesn't pay a cent for MLS either, and to be fair it no longer matters with that massive Apple+ deal.

I had a conversation with someone involved with the MNT for years who is now involved with the WNT and they mentioned the standard that the players receive is far better than what players got even 10 years ago, but the expectations have changed and they don't have the money to keep up.

Agree with you in that CSB made a massive investment at the time. The deal was public. No one cared until suddenly the MNT got hot and made the World Cup. The crux of the issue is that the deal wasn't scaled to ensure that both CSB and Canada Soccer benefitted equally above a certain revenue threshold that looked impossible when the deal was signed.
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Old 05-13-2024, 09:15 PM   #6090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matty81 View Post
That's interesting. Bit of a conflict on player selection? But better than not getting it done / being stuck with an inexperienced manager. Continually astounded by the lack of money for the flagship program in canadian mens soccer. My dream is that in future they can monetize the home games and eventually the tv rights when they get them back enough to self sustain that program. Our full men's national team being funded by little kid's soccer registration money is embarrassing. Also not a fan of the mens and womens teams players pushing for more money to rep their country recently pressurizing the picture even more. I know it's an old school take but I don't think you should be paid to play NT football, if you don't want to play for the NT to rep your country pro bono, don't accept a callup and just play club football.
No tv networks in Canadian history have had the slightest interest in paying money to put Canadian national soccer games on tv. People seem to think TSN, Sportsnet or some other entity would happily pay to broadcast CMNT games. That’s not true and never has been.

We fund our CMNT with youth registration money because we don’t have a stable pyramid of professional clubs that foots the bill. That’s the reality.

Players these days, especially our players, want that $$$$. If only we were prestigious enough to get players to play for free. Canadian fans generally don’t want to spend any money when it comes to supporting the program, either.
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Old 05-14-2024, 12:33 AM   #6091
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TSN basically funded the CSL back post 1986. Clubs were mismanged of course too in the 5 year run, and TSN itself was a lot different, but why got burned there too.

But the mismanagement of broadcast networks happened long ago by the CSA, pretty much after the failed 1994 WC. The same hubris and political CSA infighting that made the MNT increasingly crippled with players chosen because of politics, coaching decisions based on factions within the CSA for or against said coach, for years, also trickled down to the way the CSA mismanged alienating sponsors and broadcast partners through unreasonable demands (talking late 90s, never really to recover). I don't really recall any of the Canada games on TSN after 1994, where they went the all way to Australia to cover the playoff. 1998 the WC qualifying was brief. SNet picked up the MNT when they started as a network in early 2000s, but even the famous Gold Cup win was announced from studios here, as were any international games.

Networks put out production costs for events or leagues when they know they'll get advertisers to cover the costs of said production. CSA wanted a fee per year too, just because.
Advertisers pay rates to the broadcaters based on general viewership. If no advertisers want to pay the rates the networks need to cover costs, there is no broadcast. Again, add to this the CSA wanting a peice of the action too as an annual fee, and it's a no go.

Of course, multiple factors at play, the MNT wasn't great because because the CSA mismanaged internal finances for decades and the team had a lack of basic needs, and of training, facilities etc., nevermind the internal politics interfering with coaches and players. Not a great team means less viewers, means less advertisers, and thus, no networks wanting to bleed money on production costs, especially when they travel out of country for some games.

Pro lacrosse, national basketball teams, even major junior hockey, the overall viewership demand isn't there for networks to produce, or pay producers, to cover events because sponsors aren't plentiful enoigh. The PWHL is getting propped up severely by major national sponsors in promoting the women's game. It's a first year season but the PWHL, so will see how it looks longer term, but PWHL ownership also works with broadcast partners, where the CSA, again, 20+ years ago, didn't work in partnership with broadcasters and expected them to pay them fees, for no return on the broadcasters money.
We will see how the Women's Pro League will be handled Ina couple years from now.

But, there's a reason, finally, after 30+ years of mismanaging the business side, and media wise, the 15 member CSA board finally had the sense, or desperation, to pass off the business side to some (opportunistic) 3rd party business people (with the 2026 WC months away from being announced) to separate it from the CSA toxicity. It's a shame though the incompetentance continued to the end and the CSA took any deal that was given to them, and made a terrible one with the CSB for a fixed, and mildly escalating (inflation) allowance for 10 years, severely limiting the potential revenue upside and growth that a 2026 WC hosting would provide to all aspects of the CSA on the backs of their own National teams, nevermind the shock 2022 qualifying.

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Old 05-14-2024, 11:05 AM   #6092
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Sportsnet showed the Gold Cup in 2000 and that should have catapulted the program forward, but the failed 2002 campaign really put the program back 20 years.

The 2-0 loss to T&T in Edmonton 9 months after winning the Gold Cup was the end of that short lived success. With Mexico also in that group, there was no way back. When Canada went to the 2001 Confederations Cup they had no momentum left.
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Old 05-14-2024, 11:31 AM   #6093
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No one really watched that gold cup win sad to say. I enjoyed it massively but not only did not a lot of my soccer friends not watch it, but the stands were completely empty on tv too. I agree with you GS that a world cup qualification would have changed the game back then to a much greater extent. Our team was frankly pretty bad back then midfield and attacking wise, even though our backline and keeper were great - I was really disappointed but never surprised when they lost. There was one dual national who might have changed the picture immensely with Forest, Devos and McKenna locking down the backline, but I won't go there again haha

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Old 05-15-2024, 08:13 AM   #6094
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Sportsnet showed the Gold Cup in 2000 and that should have catapulted the program forward, but the failed 2002 campaign really put the program back 20 years.

The 2-0 loss to T&T in Edmonton 9 months after winning the Gold Cup was the end of that short lived success. With Mexico also in that group, there was no way back. When Canada went to the 2001 Confederations Cup they had no momentum left.
Making the world cup is obviously a positive thing for a program.

However, we recently made the world cup, and I doubt TSN or sportsnet would pay for Canada games today if given the chance to bid.

I remember watching that Gold Cup. It was great. I also didnt know anyone else that watched it, too.

The same way people argue that the CPL fans "are there" and that clubs just need to do more to attract them, I wonder if there are just a (smaller) finite number of fans invested in the game in this country and there's not much that can be done to change that statistic in a meaningful way.

I say this after being a regular on the Voyageurs board since the late 90's. Many of the people on my senior rec soccer team don't go to live matches or watch it on tv. They like to play soccer, but aren't "fans" of the game. That's just the way it is.
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Old 05-15-2024, 10:17 AM   #6095
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I watched that Gold Cup too. Then I forgot about the national team for the next decade like everyone else. One night I got hooked watching Canada play Ecuador in front of a 2/3 empty BMO Field and haven't looked back. But I am the outlier and for years it felt like I was the only one in this city who cared.

Canada tends to be a nation of bandwagon jumpers when it comes to sports outside of hockey and the big 4 American leagues. The bandwagon that was full in March 2022 is now empty. Maybe a few people jump on during Copa America to watch Canada play Messi but they'll be off as soon as the tournament is over. Networks don't pay for national team content because not enough people care about the national teams to watch. Same with CPL.

I agree with johnny199r, I am seeing that there just aren't a lot of people willing to invest with their time or their wallets into the game. It's slowly improving, but to really change the culture requires decades of the game being around in a meaningful way and people don't tend to have that kind of patience.
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Old 05-15-2024, 10:25 AM   #6096
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This is the litmus test if you cared about the national team when no one else did:

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Old 05-15-2024, 10:41 AM   #6097
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Love it... right up there with Phillip's Bakery. man the new Benny's 75th anniversary track is even better, gonna be stuck in my head all day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XCka7lj9mQ
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Old 05-15-2024, 11:23 AM   #6098
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This is the litmus test if you cared about the national team when no one else did:

Taste the soup.
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Old 05-16-2024, 08:58 AM   #6099
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Making the world cup is obviously a positive thing for a program.

However, we recently made the world cup, and I doubt TSN or sportsnet would pay for Canada games today if given the chance to bid.

I remember watching that Gold Cup. It was great. I also didnt know anyone else that watched it, too.

It's a different tv landscape now but if Canada had made any of the 94, 98 or 02 World Cups when the team was decent, that would have changed network tv.
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