The Home Improvement Thread

[BloodFetish]

Shipping container home?

http://www.honomobo.com/

Can't find any prices on their website, though.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by BloodFetish

Shipping container home?

http://www.honomobo.com/

Can't find any prices on their website, though.

Based on this, a lot.

[BloodFetish]

Ah, too bad. If the idea appeals there are probably many ways to go about it.

Good luck with your search.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Thanks - yeah, I think it would make some sense if you were wanting a reasonably fast build and a place that looks super modern and kind of European. I'm going more for the cabin route though. I mean, it'll be a fully functioning (small) home, but in the woods.

One thing I do like about those units is the fact that you can pour a foundation, do all the plumbing and basically build a drive-under garage, and then just drop the sea can unit on top and finish it all up quickly. That's a clear upside, just not right for my application I think.

[Fuzz]

More electrical questions! Stupid permit expires in January, so I have to get the rough inspection done, which means I have to, uh, wire it...I do have the Knight electrical book, but I couldn't find info on this

The city wiring guide says outside outlets need to be on their own circuit, is this true for a detached garage as well? Someone had mentioned I don't need to, can't remember who.

I've got a 200A panel where the main services, with 100A breaker for the house sub panel. In the garage I'd like to have one, ideally 2 50A separate circuits, just to avoid headaches 10 years down the road if this electric vehicle craze takes off. So for those who can add, that's 100A + 50A + 50A=200A. Now, I know it's more complicated than that. So how do I figure out if this is OK or not? I'll probably have 8x15A circuits and 3x20 A circuits as well.

For rough inspection, it says not to put outlets in, just run the wire, secure it to the box and remove the sheathing. If the wire goes in a box, and out to another one(say, a light circuit with multiple lights) do I just leave those loose, or do I connect them up and leave a pigtail for the fixture?

It says that cable MAY be terminated in the panel board, but not connected. First, may...I'd rather just leave it until final and have it to the box, but not in it. But if it needs to be in the box, does "terminate" mean connect the neutral and ground to the bus bars, or just loose inside the panel?

Oh, and service loops. Yay or nay?

This is the guide:
http://www.calgary.ca/PDA/pd/Documen...ring-guide.pdf

Thanks!

[llwhiteoutll]

I assume you are aware of the requirement for AFCI protection, even in a detached garage? And if so, the acceptable workaround so you don't need all AFCI plugs?

Service loops: Might as well, it will save potential headaches down the road

Connection to the panel: I had all my wire ends loose in the panel and zip tied together for the rough inspection, they were fine with that setup

Electrical boxes: I stripped the sheathing off and left it sticking out of the box. The boxes that were in the middle of the circuit simply had more wires sticking out, I didn't pigtail them

15A circuits: Ditch them. Just have all the outlets as 20A, no point to have both in a garage

Other things to consider:
- Add some outlets with the USB charging ports integrated. I have them along the wall where my work benches are, makes it super easy to charge phones while having it close by.
- Add an occupancy sensor to your lights, nice to have all the lights come on when you open the door.
- Outlet high up on a wall so you can plug in a TV if you need to at some point.
- More than one outlet on the ceiling, you need one for the garage door opener, but space for drop lights is always nice
- After you are done running everything, take pictures of all the walls. Keep all wiring at uniform heights as well
- Plan where your work areas will be and place lights appropriately, now is the time when you can eliminate shadows over workbenches

[Fuzz]

I was told AFCI wasn't required for a detached garage. What is the workaround?

Some of the circuits are 15A for lights and things that don't require 20A. When I had the panel installed he gave me bunch of 15A breakers so I figured may as well use them for lights, furnace power, and a few other things that 20A is overkill for. but ya, maybe I'll switch a few more to 20A.

[Fuzz]

Page 65 here says AFCI not required for detached garages:

http://www.safetycodes.ab.ca/SCO/Doc...%20Calgary.pdf

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Page 65 here says AFCI not required for detached garages:

http://www.safetycodes.ab.ca/SCO/Doc...%20Calgary.pdf

I’d call and ask, just to be sure. I was told that the AFCI was needed even in detached, this was last summer/fall

The workaround is using a blank AFCI device in the first box of each circuit, with armoured cable between the panel and box. Whole circuit is protected, but you can use all regular outlets

15Abis good for lights, but I’d have all the outlets as 20A. Just comes down to what and how much you plan to run

[kevman]

Oh man AFCI's would be a nightmare in a garage.

And that's why people don't get permits...

[speede5]

Service loops are pretty much mandatory around here and you really should. It is good technique and if you ever damage a wire in a box you can just pull some through.

I'd talk to the inspector but AFCI in detached is not supposed to be a requirement.

Wire ain't cheap, 15A for lights and most outlets is just fine. Put in a couple 220 ccts too. Welder, heater, always good to have one available.

[Flames_Gimp]

not to nitpick but, AFCI doesn't meet code, you need CAFCI (combination arch fault circuit interrupter) Avoid a possible expensive mistake

and they aren't required for detatched garage

[Fuzz]

So, uh, anyone know where to get 6/3 wire? Home Depot didn't have it, neither does the Rona near me. Cheap is also best!

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

So, uh, anyone know where to get 6/3 wire? Home Depot didn't have it, neither does the Rona near me. Cheap is also best!

eecol, best place to go, better prices than home depot, cafci's for example were quite a bit cheaper

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

not to nitpick but, AFCI doesn't meet code, you need CAFCI (combination arch fault circuit interrupter) Avoid a possible expensive mistake

and they aren't required for detatched garage

When was it changed? Because as of a summer 2016 build and inspection, the city was requiring it. Did they change the definition of dwelling unit, that’s the justification they were using at the time.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

When was it changed? Because as of a summer 2016 build and inspection, the city was requiring it. Did they change the definition of dwelling unit, that’s the justification they were using at the time.

Weird I just had an inspection this year and no mention of it, I’ll look it up, though. An inspector told you this?

[Flames_Gimp]

“–Dwelling unit — one or more rooms for the use of one or more persons as a housekeeping unit with cooking, eating, living, and sleeping facilities. –Single dwelling — a dwelling unit consisting of a detached house, one unit of row housing, or one unit of a semi-detached, duplex, triplex, or quadruplex house. ”

[Flames_Gimp]

Ok http://www.safetycodes.ab.ca/SCO/Doc....%20Albert.pdf

This says no AFCI for detached garage in Alberta this is 2017 as well. Detached garage isn’t a dwelling unit and AFCI not required in non-dwelling units.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

Weird I just had an inspection this year and no mention of it, I’ll look it up, though. An inspector told you this?

Electrical inspector with the city said it when I called in.

Quoted 2015 CEC Rule 26-724(f), which calls for CAFCI protection on circuits supplying 15A or 20A receptacles, except when installed under Rules 26-710(f) and 26-712(d), which cover counters and bathrooms

I used the provision under Rule 26-724(g) to only install a single AFCI receptacle on each 20A circuit

[llwhiteoutll]

Ok, it looks like it was changed for 2017 or I got bad information from the city/province.

When I talked to them, they were using a different definition of dwelling unit that captured a detached garage