Your 2018-19 Calgary Flames?

[Enoch Root]

They also had Frolik, Versteeg and Jagr injured at the same time.

Not core players, but RW is theweakest position and getting multiple injuries at the same time was a real strain on the lineup.

Then the 1st line RW goes down.

Now that I think about it, Brouwer was out for a while as well. Do we have an RW that wasn't hurt?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by wingmaker

I would say the Smith injury is as catastrophic an injury as the Flames could have had at the time. Certainly seems like the team would at least have 2 or 3 more wins and possibly more since he went down.

As of February first, Calgary had 74 mangames lost to injury. Almost all of which were to spare parts.

The ducks have had 252 games lost to injury this year. The ducks are ahead of the flames in the standings.

How is this possible?

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

As of February first, Calgary had 74 mangames lost to injury. Almost all of which were to spare parts.

The ducks have had 252 games lost to injury this year. The ducks are ahead of the flames in the standings.

How is this possible?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

They also had Frolik, Versteeg and Jagr injured at the same time.

Not core players, but RW is theweakest position and getting multiple injuries at the same time was a real strain on the lineup.

Then the 1st line RW goes down.

Now that I think about it, Brouwer was out for a while as well. Do we have an RW that wasn't hurt?

I mean, is this really what you're hanging your hat on? The ducks lost Getzlaf, Kesler. Eaves gone for the whole year.

But injuries to Troy Brouwer and Jagr are comparable because the organization is garbage on the right wing?

The ducks have gotten a combined 67 games from Getzlaf and Kesler this year.

Where on earth would the Flames be if the story was similar? Is there a spot below 31 they could've finished?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Funny picture.

You know the ducks have been without their starting goaltender for almost as long as the Flames have, right? That up to this point in the season the Ducks have lost more goaltending man games than the Flames have?

huehuehueh goalposts huehuehueh

[H2SO4(aq)]

If I’m not mistaken do we not retain our two 2nd round picks from the hamonic deal if we miss the playoffs? Could someone verify or refute please?

I hate to say this, but for the long term health of the team perhaps missing is the best thing for us. Especially if it results in Calgary getting quennville as coach or something.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

If I’m not mistaken do we not retain our two 2nd round picks from the hamonic deal if we miss the playoffs? Could someone verify or refute please?

I hate to say this, but for the long term health of the team perhaps missing is the best thing for us. Especially if it results in Calgary getting quennville as coach or something.

Not sure on the picks but I agree that missing the playoffs would be best at this point. I think it the surest way to rid the team of this terrible coaching staff. I'd hate to squeak in, get creamed (maybe win one game) then watch management say, 'see the improvement'.

[getoverit]

We benefit on the Smith deal, not the Hamonic deal in not making the playoffs............


Bob McKenzie @TSNBobMcKenzie
Conditions get a little complicated. If CGY misses playoffs in 2019, NYI gets the 2nd round pick that year.

That's because there's a pre-existing deal in place with ARI, that if CGY makes playoffs in 2019, ARI gets CGY's 2nd rounder.

So if ARI gets that 2019 2nd rder, NYI will get 2020 2nd round pick from CGY.

If CGY sends NYI a 2nd in 2019, the 4th the Flames get back is also in 2019. If CGY sends 2nd in 2020, the 4th rder they get back is 2020


SMITH DEAL:
Ryan Pike @RyanNPike
Did some digging and got some clarity on the conditional #Flames pick for the 2018 Draft; If #Flames make playoffs, their 3rd goes to Arizona (via Smith trade). If they miss, they keep the pick.

So if they make the playoffs, the #Flames will not select until the 4th round of this year's draft.

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

If I’m not mistaken do we not retain our two 2nd round picks from the hamonic deal if we miss the playoffs? Could someone verify or refute please?

I hate to say this, but for the long term health of the team perhaps missing is the best thing for us. Especially if it results in Calgary getting quennville as coach or something.

[yourbestfriend]

The first question we need to ask our selves, is where do we see ourselves in the 18/19 season? There's no point in acquiring all these pieces and making big changes if next year this time we're going to be in the same position.
Adding one piece here or there to our current roster isn't going to all of a sudden turn us into a cup contender.

If we are to be legitimate cup contenders before Gio starts slowing down, the first thing we need to do is either acquire a true 1C who can drive play from the middle, or a 2C who is at a similar caliber to Monahan.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I mean, is this really what you're hanging your hat on? The ducks lost Getzlaf, Kesler. Eaves gone for the whole year.

But injuries to Troy Brouwer and Jagr are comparable because the organization is garbage on the right wing?

The ducks have gotten a combined 67 games from Getzlaf and Kesler this year.

Where on earth would the Flames be if the story was similar? Is there a spot below 31 they could've finished?

Where did I compare our situation to the Ducks? Your over-the-top posts are so tiring.

You said there were 'no critical forward or defense injuries this year'. THat was hyperbole.

Then someone pointed out that Smith was critical, which it was (yes, everyone knows he's a goalie, that's not the point.

Then I added that, while the Flames injuries haven't been to star players, there have been lots of injuries to the weakest position, RW. And that is going to cause problems.

Suddenly you're ranting about the Ducks.

I don't know what it is with you - you seem to expect everyone to agree with you, and you loose your mind when they don't.

[Hey Connor, It's Mess]

Brodie won't come close to getting you Hoffman, or any effective winger for that matter. That ship sailed when his play dropped off a cliff.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The flames are likely to be worse next year than they are this year.

Career years from teams best players. No critical forward or defensive injuries this year. No tkachuk level prospects graduation or maturation. Everyone over 32 one year older. Backlund contract kicking in and limiting ability to add salary. Tremendous organizational pressure to improve leading to short term decision making.

Originally Posted by wingmaker

I would say the Smith injury is as catastrophic an injury as the Flames could have had at the time. Certainly seems like the team would at least have 2 or 3 more wins and possibly more since he went down.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

They also had Frolik, Versteeg and Jagr injured at the same time.

Not core players, but RW is theweakest position and getting multiple injuries at the same time was a real strain on the lineup.

Then the 1st line RW goes down.

Now that I think about it, Brouwer was out for a while as well. Do we have an RW that wasn't hurt?

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

As of February first, Calgary had 74 mangames lost to injury. Almost all of which were to spare parts.

The ducks have had 252 games lost to injury this year. The ducks are ahead of the flames in the standings.

How is this possible?

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I mean, is this really what you're hanging your hat on? The ducks lost Getzlaf, Kesler. Eaves gone for the whole year.

But injuries to Troy Brouwer and Jagr are comparable because the organization is garbage on the right wing?

The ducks have gotten a combined 67 games from Getzlaf and Kesler this year.

Where on earth would the Flames be if the story was similar? Is there a spot below 31 they could've finished?

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Where did I compare our situation to the Ducks? Your over-the-top posts are so tiring.

You said there were 'no critical forward or defense injuries this year'. THat was hyperbole.

Then someone pointed out that Smith was critical, which it was (yes, everyone knows he's a goalie, that's not the point.

Then I added that, while the Flames injuries haven't been to star players, there have been lots of injuries to the weakest position, RW. And that is going to cause problems.

Suddenly you're ranting about the Ducks.

I don't know what it is with you - you seem to expect everyone to agree with you, and you loose your mind when they don't.

I'm literally laughing here at my desk. I'm not apoplectic, I just can't believe you can't see the veil of your own argument. Maybe I should re-calibrate my expectations.

Brouwer is a buyout candidate, Versteeg vacillates between being an NHLer and not, Jagr is a 45 year old who finally had the wheels fall off. You are right, RW is an organizational weakness and injuries to the right wing hurt the roster. Disproportionately because the roster is bad. That's the argument you're making: because the flames are weak on RW, RW injuries hurt them badly.

The Ducks, a good team, have had injuries to their top two centres, perhaps their two best players, for the entire year. Is the suggestion here that injuries to Getzlaf and Kesler are as significant as injuries to Versteeg and Brouwer? If the answer is yes, doesn't that point to the Ducks being a vastly superior roster if they can lose their two best players and not be crippled but the flames lose a couple of 3rd/4th liners and are? Isn't that an indication of a massive gulf between the two teams in terms of the quality of their respective rosters?

If the answer is no, the injuries to brouwer and versteeg are not as significant as injuries to Getzlaf and Kesler, doesn't that also point to the same thing? Couldn't you apply this same idea to a positional basis and completely remove the players in question (which is what I did by suggesting injuries to backlund and monahan would have been season ending)?

Patrick Eaves is also a right wing, and he's only played 2 games this year after scoring 30 goals last year. Isn't that a much more significant RW loss than both Brouwer and Versteeg combined? That is 3 major injuries to 3 top 6 forwards and Anaheim has managed to still be playoff calibre.

I'm using the ducks as an example of a good team weathering injuries to key players through most of the season and still being playoff calibre compared to the flames dealing with injuries to marginal players and not being a playoff calibre team.

The flames have some of the fewest man games lost to injury of any team in the league this year, and sit outside of a playoff spot. If they had comparable injuries as Anaheim, would they be a playoff calibre team?

If no, why not?

[blender]

Re the Ducks: It has to be said that they weathered the loss of Getzlaf and Kesler by having Derek Grant play top line C minutes for a while. I know that's not sustainable, but when I look at the Flames 4th line I'm pissed that he isn't centering it. Just an example of bad asset management and talent evaluation (and probably coaching, too).

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by blender

Re the Ducks: It has to be said that they weathered the loss of Getzlaf and Kesler by having Derek Grant play top line C minutes for a while. I know that's not sustainable, but when I look at the Flames 4th line I'm pissed that he isn't centering it. Just an example of bad asset management and talent evaluation (and probably coaching, too).

The Flames' pro scouts are just bad.

[dino7c]

If you are saying the Ducks have more forward and goal tending depth I don't think anyone would disagree. Flames have had significant injuries though. PP was top 10 when Versteeg wen't down. The loss of our MVP in the most critical stretch obviously hurt.

Man games is a terrible stat and not reflective of the impact.

[Ozy_Flame]

The hardest asset to manage this off-season will be Brodie.

You keep him, and you have to ensure he rebounds back. He needs the right defense strategy, the right side to play on (literally), proper ice time, and the correct defense partner. Then you need to address the IQ and psychology part of the game, which runs deeper than just on-ice attention. He is losing it and cannot be regularly counted on to play a top-four role like he should.

You trade him, and you better fill an organizational hole that is glaring - scoring on the right side. If that doesn't happen, do you even bother?

I would still target Hoffman this summer, even if he is older with only two years left on his contract.

[blender]

Originally Posted by yourbestfriend

The first question we need to ask our selves, is where do we see ourselves in the 18/19 season? There's no point in acquiring all these pieces and making big changes if next year this time we're going to be in the same position.
Adding one piece here or there to our current roster isn't going to all of a sudden turn us into a cup contender.

If we are to be legitimate cup contenders before Gio starts slowing down, the first thing we need to do is either acquire a true 1C who can drive play from the middle, or a 2C who is at a similar caliber to Monahan.

Next year this organization should see itself as trying to win the cup, as they should every year. Hence, they should be actively trying to sign Tavares. Seriously. Bring in a coach that has a better pedigree, sign Tavares for Mcdavid money, upgrade the bottom six by robbing from the D.
Win now.
Would address the alleged culture of mediocrity as well.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by blender

Next year this organization should see itself as trying to win the cup, as they should every year. Hence, they should be actively trying to sign Tavares. Seriously. Bring in a coach that has a better pedigree, sign Tavares for Mcdavid money, upgrade the bottom six by robbing from the D.
Win now.
Would address the alleged culture of mediocrity as well.

Tkachuk-Tavares-Ferland
Bennett-Monahan-Gaudreau
Dube-Backlund-Frolik
Klimchuk-Shore-Shinkaruk

Gio-Hamilton
LD-Andersson
Kulak-Brodie

Smith
Rittich

Trade - Hamonic, Stone, Kylington, Jankowski, for picks and LH D. Buy out or bury Brouwer.

Year after, graduate Valimaki and Fox in place of Brodie and Kulak.

[blender]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Tkachuk-Tavares-Ferland
Bennett-Monahan-Gaudreau
Dube-Backlund-Frolik
Klimchuk-Shore-Shinkaruk

Gio-Hamilton
LD-Andersson
Kulak-Brodie

Smith
Rittich

Trade - Hamonic, Stone, Kylington, Jankowski, for picks and LH D

Year after, graduate Valimiaki and Fox in place of Brodie and Kulak.

I'd keep Hamonic, but other than that...

[Corral]

Originally Posted by blender

Next year this organization should see itself as trying to win the cup, as they should every year. Hence, they should be actively trying to sign Tavares. Seriously. Bring in a coach that has a better pedigree, sign Tavares for Mcdavid money, upgrade the bottom six by robbing from the D.
Win now.
Would address the alleged culture of mediocrity as well.

Tavares isn't going to leave the mediocrity of the NYI in the Big Apple for more of the same in the bustling metropolis of Calgary.

No - if he leaves NYI he will sign McDavid like money in Toronto.