Calgary Public Transit - Discussion

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Also the way it appears on the map provided by the OP it looks like travel Downtown will require a transfer to a no doubt packed NE train meaning an absoulute cluster____ during rush hour.

I believe there would be inter-lining, which would avoid passenger transfers but increase corridor congestion.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Also the way it appears on the map provided by the OP it looks like travel Downtown will require a transfer to a no doubt packed NE train meaning an absoulute cluster____ during rush hour.

As Addick notes above, I believe the idea is to have the north central trains share track with the NE line from 7th Avenue to just past the Zoo Station. This creates the same problem that the 8th Ave. Subway looks to solve - track capacity would be limited.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by boogerz

Knowing the City of Calgary, by the time all the new stations and lines are completed:

- Transit will probably be an operations nightmare

The key here is 4 car trains (being done), and the 8th Avenue Subway. All this, plus adding a 5th car in the long term to the south and northwest lines (busiest) will more than triple capacity to those lines.

Originally Posted by boogerz

- Fare increases will probably be at $5/$5+, and no one will want to ride it

So goes inflation. $2.50+ probably sounded insane to someone in 1982, yet here we are.

Originally Posted by boogerz

- Service will have probably further declined, and no one will want to ride it

New stations and lines are an incline to service. Not really sure what you're getting at here.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3

Has the North Central line been approved/price estimated?

No. The only thing "official" that's happened is there is a route recommended by a study.

[Knalus]

As per the North Central route, I noticed in the first post in the airport section a discussion involving a European style tram running from the Airport to Center Street downtown. This totally makes sense, especially regarding the North Central alignment. A central hub in the north with High speed rail, Center street tram/Airport tram and North Central LRT? Totally explains the route. Besides, in the far south and NW (the only routes I'm familiar with) a big issue regarding LRT use is that the trains are full by the time you reach the 3rd stop, so all those stops in the middle make a lot less sense. The tram, however, really does make sense.

[Knalus]

In regards to a circle route, I would think that a University/Mount Royal/Westhills/Chinook Center/SE LRT route bypassing downtown would make a ton of sense without needing a full on circle.

[Lil Pedro]

That was extremely informative Frinkprof. Thank you very much. The maps make it easier to understand what could happen for the future of the LRT

[frinkprof]

660 News was running a story yesterday about some concern over the future Martindale Station.

Safety concerns for new N.E. C-train station

• Grant Farhall
• 2010/10/11

A new C-train station is raising concerns about safety in the N.E. community of Martindale.

When finished, the LRT will cross Martindale Blvd. in between homes and near a lot of young families in the area.

But, resident Maurice Jeter is worried about what will happen if kids aren't careful and paying attention.

Transit spokesman David Danchuk tells CTV, numerous safety mechanisms will be put in place, including pedestrian gates, crossing arms and signals. The train will also stop before crossing the road.

http://www.660news.com/news/local/ar...-train-station

Thing is, this has already been addressed and the community was consulted via a community consultation committee. The station has been pretty much idiot (and kid) proofed. There will be one platform on either side of Martindale Blvd. and the trains will stop before crossing the road each and every time.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Knalus

As per the North Central route, I noticed in the first post in the airport section a discussion involving a European style tram running from the Airport to Center Street downtown. This totally makes sense, especially regarding the North Central alignment. A central hub in the north with High speed rail, Center street tram/Airport tram and North Central LRT? Totally explains the route. Besides, in the far south and NW (the only routes I'm familiar with) a big issue regarding LRT use is that the trains are full by the time you reach the 3rd stop, so all those stops in the middle make a lot less sense. The tram, however, really does make sense.

Are you arguing that we should build the less useful route to deter people from filling it up?

As noted, the Center Street alignment would have much higher capacity than the Deerfoot alignment, and once the 8th Ave Subway is finished the S/NW line will also have much, much higher capacity. Before that, 4 car trains will help a little. This might sound crazy, but I think we should build the routes that will have high ridership and high capacity instead of low ridership and low capacity.

What I don't get though is why we're not upgrading the S platforms before the NE, since S has the highest ridership. Just shift the alignment, temporarily to S-W and NW-NE until the whole system is four cars, so that S gets the 4 car trains ASAP, as they are badly needed there.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

Thing is, this has already been addressed and the community was consulted via a community consultation committee. The station has been pretty much idiot (and kid) proofed. There will be one platform on either side of Martindale Blvd. and the trains will stop before crossing the road each and every time.

I'm more worried about the other crossing of Martindale Blvd where trains won't stop before crossing, or the crossing of Saddletowne circle, where the trains won't stop before the crossing, at least outbound. However, the track switches are on the inbound side of Saddletowne circle, so most trains will be crossing quite slowly.

[FurnaceFace]

I'm impressed they are going to look at some transit options from the airport. I always shake my head at the lock the cab companies seem to have on transit. I'd quite happily take transit to the airport assuming it's a smooth process. If I could walk the 500m to the new west stations near me, hop a train, and arrive at the airport I'd be a happy camper. That's unlikely to happen but it would make things better (for everyone but cab owners). The Vancouver Canada Line is a fantastic invention.

I would also imagine The City is contemplating bus routes which would link legs of the LRT where it makes sense.

[Huntingwhale]

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by SebC

Are you arguing that we should build the less useful route to deter people from filling it up?

As noted, the Center Street alignment would have much higher capacity than the Deerfoot alignment, and once the 8th Ave Subway is finished the S/NW line will also have much, much higher capacity. Before that, 4 car trains will help a little. This might sound crazy, but I think we should build the routes that will have high ridership and high capacity instead of low ridership and low capacity.

No, what I am saying is that the area closer to the downtown, along center street, will likely be better served with a dedicated tram than by an LRT. If the train is full before it hits McKnight, fewer people along that route are really going to use it the same way that people further north do. Just look at the south LRT track. No one that lives near 39th st station really considers using it to get to work. There isn't a lot of people who use the train station at Chinook to get to work downtown either. The train is full.

If a tram is being planned as well as the LRT, then the "less useful" route becomes MORE useful, because it covers a larger geographical area (once you take the tram into account), and the people of the area between Center and Deerfoot have a lot more options and access to transit.

Of course if the tram isn't going to be built, then yeah, the Center street alignment for the LRT makes a LOT more sense. Even if it is more expensive. A tram is going to be a lot less expensive than a Center St LRT, and the alignment along Deerfoot is going to be much cheaper for the larger train. But they actually have to build the tram.

I live in that area in question, and I think that a tramline down Center Street makes more sense and is more cost effective than a cut and cover subway down the same street.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

I'm impressed they are going to look at some transit options from the airport. I always shake my head at the lock the cab companies seem to have on transit. I'd quite happily take transit to the airport assuming it's a smooth process. If I could walk the 500m to the new west stations near me, hop a train, and arrive at the airport I'd be a happy camper. That's unlikely to happen but it would make things better (for everyone but cab owners). The Vancouver Canada Line is a fantastic invention.

I would also imagine The City is contemplating bus routes which would link legs of the LRT where it makes sense.

Seattle's is awesome now as well.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Knalus

In regards to a circle route, I would think that a University/Mount Royal/Westhills/Chinook Center/SE LRT route bypassing downtown would make a ton of sense without needing a full on circle.

As a UofC alumni that lived at about the same latitude as the U but had to make a huge U on the CTrain to get there, there are some merits for a northern cross. A much larger pool of potential users would be the numerous employees of businesses located in the NE that live in the NW.

In my personal opinion, I believe that the 16th Avenue widening should have added a two-lane busway rather than two lanes for mixed-traffic.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Knalus

No, what I am saying is that the area closer to the downtown, along center street, will likely be better served with a dedicated tram than by an LRT. If the train is full before it hits McKnight, fewer people along that route are really going to use it the same way that people further north do. Just look at the south LRT track. No one that lives near 39th st station really considers using it to get to work. There isn't a lot of people who use the train station at Chinook to get to work downtown either. The train is full.

Okay, but why would the trains be full? The S line is over capacity because it shares track downtown with the W-NE line. The C St alignment wouldn't have this issue, whereas the Deerfoot alignment would.

[HeartsOfFire]

My beef with Calgary Transit is simple:

For every McKnight train Northbound, there ought to be 2 Somerset trains Southbound.

Two back-to-back McKnight trains northbound are teeth-grindingly annoying.
Three back-to-back McKnight trains northbound is fataing unacceptable. No matter the reason.

[TylerSVT]

You also have to look at how adding new lines will increase the amount of traffic downtown for train useage.

Currently the train probaly sees probably half as much traffic as it would if all the proposed tracks were finished. If they increase the amount of people using trains/day by 100,000 people than that means the downtown train system HAS to be able to support that many people (which it currently cannot)

They need to either do a skyrail service on 7th avenue or the 8th avenue subway system and have NW trains run from 8th or whatever...

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by TylerSVT

They need to either do a skyrail service on 7th avenue or the 8th avenue subway system and have NW trains run from 8th or whatever...

Please no. Manhattan had 'els' during the 1900's, there is a reason they finally created a subway.

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by HeartsOfFire

My beef with Calgary Transit is simple:

For every McKnight train Northbound, there ought to be 2 Somerset trains Southbound.

Two back-to-back McKnight trains northbound are teeth-grindingly annoying.
Three back-to-back McKnight trains northbound is fataing unacceptable. No matter the reason.

As someone who takes the train from Centre street all the way to Anderson every day at 5pm, I can honestly say I have never seen two back to back McKnight trains. The 2:1 ratio of S/B to McKnight trains is 100% accurate in my experience.