The Winter's Coming Winter Tires Thread

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by yads

Wait so winter tires will make everyone drive better? Everyone should get them or they're a danger to society? Holy cow guys. Overstate things much?

It's not overstating anything. You guys need to quit pretending this is even debatable.

Information collected in 2005 shows that 38% of the accidents that occur during the winter involve at least one vehicle that is equipped with all-season tires. These vehicles are strongly overrepresented in these accidents, as it is estimated that 90% of passenger vehicles already have winter tires. In addition, the proportion of the occurrence of loss of control is even higher when the vehicles involved are equipped with all-season tires.
Tires that are designed specifically for winter driving conditions are a safe solution for driving in winter. They are designed to achieve maximum adherence on snow or ice covered surfaces.

[OBCT]

Someone asked for a good winter tire review website.

http://www.tirerack.com/winter/index.jsp

[habernac]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Really thinking about bike tires... but I'm not sure the other components on the bike will like the cold.

right up to -25 things are ok, after that, the bottom bracket starts freezing up, etc. Synthetic chain oil is a must. And you really need to take care of your drivetrain.

[yads]

Originally Posted by Sliver

It's not overstating anything. You guys need to quit pretending this is even debatable.

Information collected in 2005 shows that 38% of the accidents that occur during the winter involve at least one vehicle that is equipped with all-season tires. These vehicles are strongly overrepresented in these accidents, as it is estimated that 90% of passenger vehicles already have winter tires. In addition, the proportion of the occurrence of loss of control is even higher when the vehicles involved are equipped with all-season tires.
Tires that are designed specifically for winter driving conditions are a safe solution for driving in winter. They are designed to achieve maximum adherence on snow or ice covered surfaces.

Let's not compare Calgary climate and Montreal climate. They get 8x as much snow as we do and their winters are generally colder. It's not debatable that winter tires are better at gripping the road than all-season, you're right. What is debatable is the utility for some.

For example my wife and I drive our car less than 7K km a year. For us, the hassle of buying tires and switching them every season is not worth it, given our climate, and how much driving we do. For others who drive much more, I can see the value. Just don't act like your choice is the right choice for everyone.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by yads

Wait so winter tires will make everyone drive better? Everyone should get them or they're a danger to society? Holy cow guys. Overstate things much?

I guess I don't see the argument here. All things being equal, would you rather have:

A.) Crappy driver with all seasons
or
B.) Crappy driver with winter tires

Crappy driver is crappy driver, but at least crappy driver with winter tires can stop better than crappy driver without.

If you're a good driver, would you rather have:

A.) Good driver with all seasons
or
B.) Good driver with winter tires

I still would take B if everything was equal. It doesn't matter how good a driver someone is, sometimes things just happen, and having winter tires gives the person a better chance of avoiding an accident than all seasons.

[burn_this_city]

Its a miracle any of us are alive today, given the fact our parents and grandparents drove heavy rear wheel drive cars with drum brakes on bias ply tires in the winter!

[Dion]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I guess I don't see the argument here. All things being equal, would you rather have:

A.) Crappy driver with all seasons
or
B.) Crappy driver with winter tires

Crappy driver is crappy driver, but at least crappy driver with winter tires can stop better than crappy driver without.

If you're a good driver, would you rather have:

A.) Good driver with all seasons
or
B.) Good driver with winter tires

I still would take B if everything was equal. It doesn't matter how good a driver someone is, sometimes things just happen, and having winter tires gives the person a better chance of avoiding an accident than all seasons.

You forgot one thing ........

C.) Over confident crappy driver with winter tires who drives too fast for the conditions. Funny when we got a major dump of snow the police always say the accidents are due to people driving to fast for the conditions. That's the driver you need to worry about

[Mango]

Originally Posted by fotze

I had winter tires last year for the first time. Made a huge diffference, but am not sure how much of that can be atttributed to the terrible, bald pieces o' ship that came with the Mazda.

Glad to hear this and I'm also glad that I'm not the only Mazda owner with complaints about the awful stock tries that come with the car.

[burn_this_city]

Depending on the model and rims that came with your car some came with summer tires.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by yads

Let's not compare Calgary climate and Montreal climate. They get 8x as much snow as we do and their winters are generally colder. It's not debatable that winter tires are better at gripping the road than all-season, you're right. What is debatable is the utility for some.

For example my wife and I drive our car less than 7K km a year. For us, the hassle of buying tires and switching them every season is not worth it, given our climate, and how much driving we do. For others who drive much more, I can see the value. Just don't act like your choice is the right choice for everyone.

Well if you don't value your own safety there is very little I can do over the interwebz to change that, but I still can't understand why you would look at it that way. Your winter tires would last you over a decade with the amount of miles you put on so it certainly wouldn't be a waste of money.

It'll take you about 10 minutes to buy the tires and one hour two times per year to change them over. Seems like a very small time commitment. You'd burn a helluva lot more time than that screwing around with the hassle of an accident that could be avoided if you drove with the right tires.

And WRT me acting like my choice is the right choice for everyone - this isn't a matter of opinion. It's a matter of fact that winter tires are better for everyone.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by Sliver

It's a matter of fact that winter tires are better for everyone.

it's also a matter of fact that a lot of people can't afford to buy them.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Your winter tires would last you over a decade with the amount of miles you put on so it certainly wouldn't be a waste of money.

You might want to read this

The invisible danger of aging tires:

Tire manufacturers have long known that tires more than six years old regardless of tread depth, pose a substantial safety hazard to consumers. Tire age degradation has been an "open secret" within the industry, but the public has only recently started to take notice as the number of crashes caused by "aged" tires has grown. Prompted by consumer advocates and a growing body of research on the effects of tire aging, the government and manufacturers are beginning to address the issue.

Tires, like other rubber products, have a limited service life. Over time, a tire's internal structure degrades, reducing adhesion between the belts, which in turn facilitates tread separation. This internal degradation occurs regardless of tread use and wear. It is invisible and cannot be discerned, even by tire experts, without destructive testing.

Car crashes related to tread separation caused Ford to recall millions of Firestone tires in 2000. (1) After investigating the accidents, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) began examining tire aging as a factor in tread separations. In 2002, it proposed a tire-aging test that tire manufacturers would be required to perform on their products. (2)

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0...-of-aging.html

[Sliver]

nm

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Dion

You might want to read this

The invisible danger of aging tires:



http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0...-of-aging.html

Ok this I'll agree with. I've always known that tires usually should only last a max of about 5 years. And yes, they are going to cost a bit more than running just All Seasons.

I guess I just put value in giving myself the best possible control in bad winter conditions, and I don't mind paying for that. It doesn't mean I'm over confident and driving like a maniac in winter. I still practice defensive driving and using caution. You may say we get less snowfall than Montreal, but we do still get enough to warrant winter tires IMO.

So in the end, all I'm saying is, if you can afford it, then winter tires are definitely a very good investment. It is something I personally make sure I budget for.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by habernac

it's also a matter of fact that a lot of people can't afford to buy them.

That's an entirely different issue. The problem we are having is with the people that say all seasons are good enough when winter tires are objectively better.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Dion

You might want to read this

The invisible danger of aging tires:



http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0...-of-aging.html

I did know tires degrade, but six years is a new number to me. I capped my estimate for that dude at 10 years to account for the tires degrading even though the math would suggest he would get 15 years out of them if you just looked at how long the tires are good for and how many kms a year he would put on them (3,500).

That being said, your post yet again misses the larger point.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Ok this I'll agree with. I've always known that tires usually should only last a max of about 5 years. And yes, they are going to cost a bit more than running just All Seasons.

I guess I just put value in giving myself the best possible control in bad winter conditions, and I don't mind paying for that. It doesn't mean I'm over confident and driving like a maniac in winter. I still practice defensive driving and using caution. You may say we get less snowfall than Montreal, but we do still get enough to warrant winter tires IMO.

Snowfall amounts aren't even close when you compare us to Montreal. I'm sure it's a major reason why winter tires are manditory.

People who drive too fast for the conditions are the drivers people should worry about. A few years back the local news did a survey of body shops and most if not all were filled with SUV's and 4x4's. Drivers who have 4 wheel drive and think they can stop on a dime or have traction in any condition.

I practice defensive driving also and drive for the conditions as well as using caution by staying off the roads when the conditions are terrible. Still those of us that have all seasons are painted with a broad brush and are labeled a danger to other drivers. If that was the case both my parents would have died a long time ago and I never would have been born.

[Red_Baron]

I don't get why the no-season advocates have bothered to come into this thread at all. If you're too cool and too skilled to need them, you don't need this thread, GTFO.

Yes, I called them no-seasons because they are a compromise at best in all weather conditions.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Red_Baron

I don't get why the no-season advocates have bothered to come into this thread at all. If you're too cool and too skilled to need them, you don't need this thread, GTFO.

Yes, I called them no-seasons because they are a compromise at best in all weather conditions.

You must be a race car driver needing special tires in all conditions.
Its pretty laughable how choked up people get when someone says winter tires are a luxury and not a necessity.

[4X4]

I'm not sure where this '10 days per year' is coming from. I don't know about you guys, but I live in Calgary. The city that relies on chinooks to clear most of the side streets. And chinooks generally do a pretty bad job of clearing said streets because for every day that gets up over 0, there's a night that follows that freezes any snow that melted, but hasn't found it's way to a sewer.

What I'm hoping to achieve with these winter tires that I'm considering buying is a feeling of traction on those many, many, many inbetween days where the roads are more or less clear, but there's a thin layer of ice on them. Especially at intersections and on roads with a 70+ speed limit.

Nothing freaks me out more than driving down one of those curvy roads, trying to keep pace with traffic, and seeing the sun reflecting off the ice that's there. Snow doesn't bother me at all because I drive a 4x4. I do have better handling capabilities than a non-4x4 in the snow. I just can't stop any faster.
The other thing I'm hoping to get out of it is a better reaction from my rig in the event that I have to swerve suddenly to avoid a car spinning out in front of me.

There's just too many places that ice hides in the winter. I've never bothered with them because I'm a confident driver, but really, there's no financial justification for not doing it. The science proves that the softer rubber grips ice and snow better and there are millions of testimonials endorsing winter tires. I doubt that it's all some kind of trick to get me to spend money on something useless. As far as I'm concerned, it's an easy modification that enhances safety greatly, plus it makes me more efficient at getting my job done on a daily basis. Instead of grannying it up in the right lane, I can rejoin traffic flow at a normal pace and not be so anal about it.