2022-23 Flu/covid/RSV season

[enthused]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

I'll bump this again in case anyone is desperate and still looking:



I should add, I have no affiliation with this place; I was there for a flu shot and noticed they had a few cases in stock. The location is somewhat obscure so they probably don't get a lot of foot traffic; I did walk past on my lunch break today and they still had infant's tylenol and children's motrin available.

Thank you for the heads up; I popped in today and they still had a decent amount of Infant and Children's Tylenol and Children's Motrin.

[DoubleF]

Mucus so thick it looks like cooked oyster that's been chewed up...

Wtf that sounds horrible and disgusting.

[chubeyr1]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Daycares are one of the craziest rackets I'd never known about until recently. It's basically legalized gouging.

But understandable because finding a good childcare provider is so important and because there seems to always be crazy high demand.

Still though, the things daycares/dayhomes require of their clients is insane.

Like what?

Not picking a fight, what do daycares require that are insane? Please share.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

No that's not the problem. The shortage is a combination of supply chain issues that everyone is feeling, mixed with Canada being a smaller market and having fewer vendors to pick up the slack. The bilingual packaging issue is a separate one that makes getting stock from other vendors difficult because it needs exemptions which it easily gets. In fact, there's US stock coming this way any day now

So where is this stuff being made? Overseas? I don't understand why it takes so long until the government realizes there is a problem and THEN decides to do something.

Wouldn't Shoppers or whoever else be telling their people 'yo, we're running out and we can't get more, get it figured out.'

We're not talking about cornflakes here. Kinda important to have children's medication on the shelf when there is a big sickness going around hitting kid's the hardest.

Supply chain excuses are bull####.

[bossy22]

Since school started, my son has had pneumonia, then a couple of weeks later, the flu, and then yesterday I had to grab him from school because he had a fever. He was fine when I took him, 2 hours later, he has a fever. Fak. Poor guy. He's a big 12 year old so I'm giving him adult Tylenol and Advil. I couldn't imagine having a small child and no medication for them.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Azure

So where is this stuff being made? Overseas? I don't understand why it takes so long until the government realizes there is a problem and THEN decides to do something.

Wouldn't Shoppers or whoever else be telling their people 'yo, we're running out and we can't get more, get it figured out.'

We're not talking about cornflakes here. Kinda important to have children's medication on the shelf when there is a big sickness going around hitting kid's the hardest.

Supply chain excuses are bull####.

Are you under the impression that there is a government department in charge of monitoring store shelves for sufficient quantities of certain products? Which products need to be monitored? Are these government employees allowed to go into the back to check on quantities there?

Are you advocating for more and regular involvement of the government in the supply chain? Do you think the purchasing departments of corporations should look to the government whenever they can't source product? I may be mis-remembering you as a poster but aren't you more on the right wing side of the spectrum? If so, arguing that this is the federal governments fault doesn't seem to fit within your ideology.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

Like what?

Not picking a fight, what do daycares require that are insane? Please share.

Day homes are often more like a subscription service than a pay per use service. Once you cancel, you go to the back of the line. And sometimes that’s a long line.

They want regular clients. But it means you pay $2000 a month no matter what. Kid sick, parent has extended vacation and day home not needed, MIL in town and can look after the kids for 3 weeks etc. You even have to keep paying when the dayhome is closed because the owner wants time off. They can be very lucrative. It’s just not work that most people are cut out for.

As I mentioned already, it’s completely understandable, these small day homes can’t cater to people who want only casual service and they are in an industry with exceptionally high demand for service. They absolutely are in a position to set favourable terms for themselves. Not to mention someone caring for your kid is something you don’t want to cheap out on.

But to the point above, it explains why people bring their kids when they’re sick. Why not? You pay regardless.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by D as in David

Are you under the impression that there is a government department in charge of monitoring store shelves for sufficient quantities of certain products? Which products need to be monitored? Are these government employees allowed to go into the back to check on quantities there?

Are you advocating for more and regular involvement of the government in the supply chain? Do you think the purchasing departments of corporations should look to the government whenever they can't source product? I may be mis-remembering you as a poster but aren't you more on the right wing side of the spectrum? If so, arguing that this is the federal governments fault doesn't seem to fit within your ideology.

I'd assume that government facilities are one of the bigger customers for most drug sales in Alberta (Canada). I would hope that they have some voice with impending supply chain issues, already.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I'd assume that government facilities are one of the bigger customers for most drug sales in Alberta (Canada). I would hope that they have some voice with impending supply chain issues, already.

You could be right; I honestly don't know. Hopefully, someone with insight into government involvement in (various) supply chains can contribute to the discussion.

[LGA]

I don't think I've gone a month without one of my kids getting sick, it has been a bad, bad season so far.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by D as in David

You could be right; I honestly don't know. Hopefully, someone with insight into government involvement in (various) supply chains can contribute to the discussion.

Perhaps you should have gone and looked that up before you make a stupid post in regards to my political leanings and whatever direction you think I lean in regards to health care and government involvement.

From Health Canada (a government organization in case you didn't realize that).

We share the concerns of parents and caregivers about their inability to find infant and children’s acetaminophen and ibuprofen. These products are essential for families, caregivers, and health care professionals to reduce fever and pain.

Today, we are announcing that we have secured foreign supply of children’s acetaminophen that will be available for sale at retail and in community pharmacies in the coming weeks. The amount to be imported will increase supply available to consumers and will help address the immediate situation. At this time, Canadians should buy only what they need, so that other parents and caregivers can access medication so we can meet the needs of sick children.

Each proposal received from a company to import a foreign authorized product undergoes careful review by Health Canada to confirm that the product was manufactured according to the same high quality standards the people of Canada expect. Health Canada carefully reviewed this new proposal and found that the product was safe and effective. All information related to cautions and warnings, dosing directions, ingredients, and other important details will be made available in both English and French to ensure parents and caregivers clearly understand what medication they are using and how to give to their children. This work is being done in parallel to obtaining the additional foreign supply.

To further increase supply, Health Canada also recently approved the exceptional importation of infant and children’s ibuprofen and acetaminophen to supply hospitals in Canada. The importation of ibuprofen has occurred, and distribution has begun.

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-cana...-products.html

This is from Nov 14.

My question is why the hell didn't they do this a month ago. Or 2 months ago. Surely Health Canada is capable of monitoring the situation well in advance of it turning into a situation where the shelves are bare.

Really, really strange situation.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Azure

So where is this stuff being made? Overseas? I don't understand why it takes so long until the government realizes there is a problem and THEN decides to do something.



Wouldn't Shoppers or whoever else be telling their people 'yo, we're running out and we can't get more, get it figured out.'



We're not talking about cornflakes here. Kinda important to have children's medication on the shelf when there is a big sickness going around hitting kid's the hardest.



Supply chain excuses are bull####.

As with most things, it's made overseas. It's not as simple as just make more because it's a global issue and no one sees it coming. This is happening for lots of drugs. Right now it's happening for and amoxicillin suspension as well which really sucks. Need a steroid drop for an inflammatory eye disease for post cataract surgery treatment? Sorry, we got none. Do you take the enteric coated version of a particular anti arthritis med? Sorry, not available. Polysporin eye drops? Sorry, you'll need to see a doctor to get a prescription because they've been shorted for months. There are hundreds of drug shortages at any time and this just happens to be more visible. Heck, there was a shortage on an antiarrhythmic drug that had no substitute! It's a massive problem which takes up about an extra hour a day of my time apologizing and trying to find solutions.




Here's a big reason why told as an imaginary scenario (I'm sure there's lots of other issues in missing too):
Say there's 10 vendors making children's acetaminophen and 4 of them serve Canada. You may see 20 different brands but they probably all buy from those 4 vendors and package with their brand.

You're a vendor that sells to Canada as well as other countries. Due to a flood, COVID shut down in China, labour disruption, fire, etc, one of the suppliers for a chemical input has delayed supplying you for much longer than the same delays you're used to. Well, no one runs with spare capacity and partial batches are not possible or too expensive so you hold off making any until enough precursor is available. You sign a purchase agreement with another supplier whose current supply is exhausted and sold to other manufacturers and inform your customers when you think you'll have some more for them.

Now you're a wholesaler and when you make a few buys from your usual suppliers you get a delivery date much later than the usual delays (there's always delays). No big deal, you sell other brands and your customers can buy those and your warehouses and distribution networks still have some so it'll slowly drain out and hopefully you've got some in time before shelves of those few brands are empty, but others still seem to be in supply. The hidden issue here is, of the vendors who's supply is still fine, they have no spare capacity because no one builds a factory for a low margin item that isn't running at 100%.


Now you're the retailer and you carry the National brand and your own brand. You place orders all the time and there's shortages of one or the other all the time but they're always just a week or two. That's fine because you sell two brands and the customers can always buy the brand name if your corporate brand isn't available or vice versa. You order for acetaminophen suspension of one of the brands you carry isn't coming and now you're getting a shortage notice on your invoice. You look and find another brand to order and it comes in. Now demand goes through the roof, so you bump up your orders. Pretty soon there's delays in supply and your shelves are empty intermittently. Then you get the inevitable shortage notices on the ones you've been getting to replace the others.



There's a lot more to it of course, but you can see in this scenario it's complicated and there's a ton of different players involved. This has been happening with important medications for years and it's worsening. The federal government has tried addressing it with mandatory shortage reporting but that's fraught with problems as it's not black and white what constitutes a shortage. Then there's the fact that simply knowing there's a shortage a few days before not being able to get it really doesn't actually help. I don't think over the counter meds qualify anyways so it's probably for this shortage.

That's a long way to say I don't know how to fix this but it needs to be addressed. The US supply isn't really fine, but as a giant market they have enough vendors to plug the holes of the ones missing and their suppliers are big buyers that get their shipments fulfilled first.

[Azure]

I don't think Shoppers is the issue here. I understand that #### happens and you can't do much about it.

Health Canada, the feds or the provincial health authority should be aware of this, and should have planned for a potential issue 2-3 months before the shelves were literally bare.

Clearly once they get their heads together and go bang down some doors they are able to find what is needed and get it into country pretty quickly.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Azure

I don't think Shoppers is the issue here. I understand that #### happens and you can't do much about it.

Health Canada, the feds or the provincial health authority should be aware of this, and should have planned for a potential issue 2-3 months before the shelves were literally bare.

Clearly once they get their heads together and go bang down some doors they are able to find what is needed and get it into country pretty quickly.

I didn't sense you were blaming the retailer, I guess what I'm trying to show is that "shortages" aren't really black and white and there's a lot of difficulty in predicting them for any authority. I don't think children's acetaminophen has ever been on the radar though as this is unprecedented as it was exacerbated by a giant Spike in demand. Supply for most drugs is fairly inflexible. While this particular shortage is scary for parents, there are options for most and fever itself is rarely a serious issue (it's virtually always the illness itself which causes harm and Acetaminophen does nothing to that) and the shortage is unlikely to lead to much harm. What we should be far more concerned about is that there are shortages affecting medication for which there are no alternatives, like some antibiotics, disease modifying antirheumatic drugs, anti seizure meds, heart meds, etc. If there's a shortage of say ramipril (blood pressure med) I can adapt the prescription to perindopril and we're good. But what if it's Dilantin? That patient is going to have a seizure if I can't get them any. I agree it needs federal oversight, but these things like many others are unprecedented changes that need to be viewed as emerging and likely ongoing challenges

[Azure]

Yeah, and pharmacists are often 'front line' when dealing with patients, so I get the frustrations and how scary it can get.

Just think that because we have a public health care system and our governments both federal & provincial are involved in procuring drugs, there is zero excuse for not even being able to bring in children's medication. Blaming it on the supply chain is a bull#### excuse for the government.

Shoppers or Rexall can blame it on the supply chain. The government can make deals with other countries & their governments to secure supply. As evidenced by how our COVID vaccines were obtained.

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

The immune system is not a muscle, and it will be fine "without exercise". A strong immune system is why you have allergies or autoimmune diseases. You want a balanced immune system, and you can't "strengthen" it, nor do you want to. Be as healthy as you can to keep your immune system at it's best, but that's all you'll get. Intentionally getting sick isn't really beneficial.

"Dr. Cassel says another common misconception is having a "strong" immune system is what's best for your body.

"You actually don't want your immune system to be stronger, you want it to be balanced," Dr. Cassel says. "Too much of an immune response is just as bad as too little response."

Dr. Cassel says most of the things people take to boost their immune system, such as vitamins or supplements, don't have any effect on your immune response."

https://www.cedars-sinai.org/blog/bo...ne-system.html

Thank you for this! I have finally retrained about half of our extended families to stop saying "boost your immune system!" Like no, my dudes, you don't want a boosted immune system - if they're looking for an example of why not, I just point to our daughter. THAT is a boosted immune system - it's in hyper overdrive. TRUST ME, you really do NOT want that.

Vitamins and supplements pretty much just make for expensive urine getting flushed down the toilet. In certain cases, like our daughter, who has a metabolic disorder, certain vitamins and supplements become "medicine" after a fashion, because she is extremely deficient in them. Her geneticist calls it a mitochondrial cocktail. Anything she doesn't absorb, well, she gets expensive pee too but she is seeing some benefits from it. For her particular metabolic disorder, there are no real "treatments" beyond the mito cocktail and even that is just termed as a "supportive measure."

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

It does for kids Dr. Pepsi, there are 2 parts to the immune system.

- innate immune system, This is your child's rapid response system. It is the first to respond when it finds an invader, the innate immune system is inherited.

- acquired immune system, it makes special proteins ( antibodies) to protect the body from a specific invader, these antibodies are developed by cells called B lymphocytes after the body has been exposed to the invader, after exposure, the immune system will recognize the invader and defend against it, the acquired immune system changes during your child's life. Immunizations train your child's immune system to make antibodies to protect them from harmful diseases.

Kids absolutely need exposures, it's not a fluke that children's hospitals are being over run by RSV outbreaks.

Wut?


************************************************** *

Anyway....

We all had whatever filthy mcnasty is going around, in October. Sounds pretty much like what most here are describing - we tested several times & got negatives for COVID. My son, his fiance and our grandson all had it as well.

Something to look out for post whatever this ick is, with your kids, is Henoch-Schönlein purpura. We had our grandson with us the last weekend of October, camping, and ended up having to call our son & daughter in law to come get him because he needed to be seen in an emerg.

Given the wait times in Calgary, they opted to take him into Sundre (we camp about 20 minutes SE of Sundre) to get checked. I was reasonably certain it was HSP that he had, based on the observable symptoms & the docs in Sundre confirmed it. Said with the uptick in all the respiratory junk, they were seeing an uptick in HSP as well. It's a form of vasculitis. Fortunately, it was picked up on within 26 hours of his first vague complaints (knee was sore), so he's just had to go for weekly check ups and give urine samples and he's pretty much back to normal now. Adults can get HSP as well, but that's pretty rare in comparison to kids, and can be a rougher course.

We all got our latest COVID bivalent & flu shot a couple or three weeks ago, as soon as everyone was recovered. We are masking heavily again, especially as my father in law was given a diagnosis of possible bladder cancer the end of last month and we were supposed to be going up to Edmonton to help them out, as he was scheduled for surgery this coming Tuesday. But, given the explosion of all the influenza/RSV/Covid, they called yesterday & rescheduled him tentatively for December 13. So, we're being even more cautious with the masking etc, to keep well, so we can assist my in-laws in a couple of weeks. Other than my husband going to work, we are pretty much isolating again, as we do every flu season. Occasionally I go get a few groceries, but that's the extent of it. The only exception is camping, but besides one other guy, we're pretty much the only ones that winter camp out where our trailer is, so it's fairly isolating, we don't have to be around people.

[Nammer403]

Originally Posted by Nammer403

If anyone needs Tylenol 6-11 Complete Cold cough fever I have a brand new bottle
Same with Childrens NyQuil cough and cold two bottles brand new

My kids are too young to take it and pharmacy won’t accept the return
North part of the city

Bumping this in case someone needs some meds for their kids

[BrolyTheUnholy]

As much as this shortage REALLY sucks, it's been incredible seeing people help each other out like this.

[Fuzz]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1596048139685093376

Maybe we could try masking up for a bit...crazy idea.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

As with most things, it's made overseas. It's not as simple as just make more because it's a global issue and no one sees it coming. This is happening for lots of drugs. Right now it's happening for and amoxicillin suspension as well which really sucks. Need a steroid drop for an inflammatory eye disease for post cataract surgery treatment? Sorry, we got none. Do you take the enteric coated version of a particular anti arthritis med? Sorry, not available. Polysporin eye drops? Sorry, you'll need to see a doctor to get a prescription because they've been shorted for months. There are hundreds of drug shortages at any time and this just happens to be more visible. Heck, there was a shortage on an antiarrhythmic drug that had no substitute! It's a massive problem which takes up about an extra hour a day of my time apologizing and trying to find solutions.




Here's a big reason why told as an imaginary scenario (I'm sure there's lots of other issues in missing too):
Say there's 10 vendors making children's acetaminophen and 4 of them serve Canada. You may see 20 different brands but they probably all buy from those 4 vendors and package with their brand.

You're a vendor that sells to Canada as well as other countries. Due to a flood, COVID shut down in China, labour disruption, fire, etc, one of the suppliers for a chemical input has delayed supplying you for much longer than the same delays you're used to. Well, no one runs with spare capacity and partial batches are not possible or too expensive so you hold off making any until enough precursor is available. You sign a purchase agreement with another supplier whose current supply is exhausted and sold to other manufacturers and inform your customers when you think you'll have some more for them.

Now you're a wholesaler and when you make a few buys from your usual suppliers you get a delivery date much later than the usual delays (there's always delays). No big deal, you sell other brands and your customers can buy those and your warehouses and distribution networks still have some so it'll slowly drain out and hopefully you've got some in time before shelves of those few brands are empty, but others still seem to be in supply. The hidden issue here is, of the vendors who's supply is still fine, they have no spare capacity because no one builds a factory for a low margin item that isn't running at 100%.


Now you're the retailer and you carry the National brand and your own brand. You place orders all the time and there's shortages of one or the other all the time but they're always just a week or two. That's fine because you sell two brands and the customers can always buy the brand name if your corporate brand isn't available or vice versa. You order for acetaminophen suspension of one of the brands you carry isn't coming and now you're getting a shortage notice on your invoice. You look and find another brand to order and it comes in. Now demand goes through the roof, so you bump up your orders. Pretty soon there's delays in supply and your shelves are empty intermittently. Then you get the inevitable shortage notices on the ones you've been getting to replace the others.



There's a lot more to it of course, but you can see in this scenario it's complicated and there's a ton of different players involved. This has been happening with important medications for years and it's worsening. The federal government has tried addressing it with mandatory shortage reporting but that's fraught with problems as it's not black and white what constitutes a shortage. Then there's the fact that simply knowing there's a shortage a few days before not being able to get it really doesn't actually help. I don't think over the counter meds qualify anyways so it's probably for this shortage.

That's a long way to say I don't know how to fix this but it needs to be addressed. The US supply isn't really fine, but as a giant market they have enough vendors to plug the holes of the ones missing and their suppliers are big buyers that get their shipments fulfilled first.

I literally ran into the eye drop thing this morning. What the fata. Could always just get it over the counter. But now I have to find a bloody walk-in doctor to write a prescription so I can get something mixed up by the pharmacy.

Fata.