Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[timun]

Originally Posted by GGG

My thought is that if CBC tv production is profitable as you describe then it will be taken up by the private sector so there is no reason for it to be ran by government and the government shouldn’t be competing in the space as it offers no benefit to Canadians.

I didn't say it's profitable, I said it's "the only thing the CBC does that actively generates advertising and subscription fee revenues" and "quite literally the only part of the corporation's activities that comes close to paying for itself". It doesn't run in the black solely on the back of this external revenue, so the premise that the private sector will "take it up" is bunk: the private sector won't. And don't. What you're arguing we should do with the CBC is already the case. It already does the unprofitable things that private industry can't/won't do.

On the other hand the areas that lose money News and Radio will not be replicated by others and therefore need funding. I’m okay with increased funding to the CBC or decreased based on the budget requirements of a reasonable set of goals.

The discussion should focus on the goals first though then fund appropriately.

Well, again, it all loses money so if you acknowledge that it all needs funding, the "set of goals" is in the Broadcast Act:

(l) the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, as the national public broadcaster, should provide radio and television services incorporating a wide range of programming that informs, enlightens and entertains;

(m) the programming provided by the Corporation should

(i) be predominantly and distinctively Canadian,

(ii) reflect Canada and its regions to national and regional audiences, while serving the special needs of those regions,

(iii) actively contribute to the flow and exchange of cultural expression,

(iv) be in English and in French, reflecting the different needs and circumstances of each official language community, including the particular needs and circumstances of English and French linguistic minorities,

(v) strive to be of equivalent quality in English and in French,

(vi) contribute to shared national consciousness and identity,

(vii) be made available throughout Canada by the most appropriate and efficient means and as resources become available for the purpose, and

(viii) reflect the multicultural and multiracial nature of Canada;

(n) where any conflict arises between the objectives of the Corporation set out in paragraphs (l) and (m) and the interests of any other broadcasting undertaking of the Canadian broadcasting system, it shall be resolved in the public interest, and where the public interest would be equally served by resolving the conflict in favour of either, it shall be resolved in favour of the objectives set out in paragraphs (l) and (m);

Notice that none of its stated goals and purposes is "be profitable", or even "maximize revenue". Its purpose is to provide the kind of programming that won't be profitable, that no "other broadcast undertaking" would do.

Originally Posted by GGG

https://cbc.radio-canada.ca/en/impac...ial-highlights

Above is a link to the financials but I can’t find a breakdown between the different services.

Also CBC brings in 375 million in add/subscription revenue so for the statement that TV subsidizes radio to be true it would mean TV would need to be less than 375 of the 1.7B budget.

*sigh* I didn't say "TV subsidizes radio", I said TV is "the only thing the CBC does that actively generates advertising and subscription fee revenues" and "quite literally the only part of the corporation's activities that comes close to paying for itself". No part of the CBC actually makes a profit; as per the above, that's the point...

(They don't break down the expenses on radio vs. TV services in the annual reports and haven't for a while now, but historically it was 50/50ish.)

[timun]

Originally Posted by Geraldsh

Get away from the cities with all their FM choices and CBC AM is often the only choice for a mature listener. You can still tune in at 11:00 so set your clock.

More local news and weather is something I would spend tax dollars on.

"Local news" is the "1 percent" that Doctorfever was talking about, the remark he was too lazy/disingenuous/ignorant to explain: nightly viewership of the CBC local evening news programming is only about 1% of the overall population, around 300,000-350,000 viewers across the entire network.

[timun]

Originally Posted by Azure

CBC Sports shouldn't focus on the NHL where the big players compete and blow money to have the rights.

The CBC doesn't pay a dime for NHL rights, and makes absolutely no money off it either. The CBC allows Rogers to use HNIC branding in exchange for Rogers allowing the CBC the right to air the Saturday evening double-header nationally. The CBC contributes no expenses, and in turn gets no revenue from it. They basically just get seven free hours of weekly programming on Saturday nights that they would otherwise have to pay to fill. As taxpayers it saves us money because that's ~4% of the weekly CBC schedule that costs us $0.

[PepsiFree]

It’s nice watching the NHL playoffs for free on CBC.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s nice watching the NHL playoffs for free on CBC.

Did you have to adjust the antenna on your vintage television set?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Locke

Did you have to adjust the antenna on your vintage television set?

They have a strangely named app! It’s good, except for having to watch the same 2 commercials 100 times.

[Locke]

The thing that annoys me the most about the CBC is that its just bad.

I really enjoy a lot of ABC and BBC content, but the CBC? Everything about it seems....amateur. Its just low quality.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Locke

The thing that annoys me the most about the CBC is that its just bad.

I really enjoy a lot of ABC and BBC content, but the CBC? Everything about it seems....amateur. Its just low quality.

Are you suggesting they should get more funding so they can have better production quality?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Are you suggesting they should get more funding so they can have better production quality?

I always find it interesting that you just naturally gravitate to equating Money to Quality.

Just pay more and it'll be better because thats a natural, linear and immutable relationship.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by timun

I didn't say it's profitable, I said it's "the only thing the CBC does that actively generates advertising and subscription fee revenues" and "quite literally the only part of the corporation's activities that comes close to paying for itself". It doesn't run in the black solely on the back of this external revenue, so the premise that the private sector will "take it up" is bunk: the private sector won't. And don't. What you're arguing we should do with the CBC is already the case. It already does the unprofitable things that private industry can't/won't do.



Well, again, it all loses money so if you acknowledge that it all needs funding, the "set of goals" is in the Broadcast Act:

(l) the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, as the national public broadcaster, should provide radio and television services incorporating a wide range of programming that informs, enlightens and entertains;

(m) the programming provided by the Corporation should

(i) be predominantly and distinctively Canadian,

(ii) reflect Canada and its regions to national and regional audiences, while serving the special needs of those regions,

(iii) actively contribute to the flow and exchange of cultural expression,

(iv) be in English and in French, reflecting the different needs and circumstances of each official language community, including the particular needs and circumstances of English and French linguistic minorities,

(v) strive to be of equivalent quality in English and in French,

(vi) contribute to shared national consciousness and identity,

(vii) be made available throughout Canada by the most appropriate and efficient means and as resources become available for the purpose, and

(viii) reflect the multicultural and multiracial nature of Canada;

(n) where any conflict arises between the objectives of the Corporation set out in paragraphs (l) and (m) and the interests of any other broadcasting undertaking of the Canadian broadcasting system, it shall be resolved in the public interest, and where the public interest would be equally served by resolving the conflict in favour of either, it shall be resolved in favour of the objectives set out in paragraphs (l) and (m);

Notice that none of its stated goals and purposes is "be profitable", or even "maximize revenue". Its purpose is to provide the kind of programming that won't be profitable, that no "other broadcast undertaking" would do.



*sigh* I didn't say "TV subsidizes radio", I said TV is "the only thing the CBC does that actively generates advertising and subscription fee revenues" and "quite literally the only part of the corporation's activities that comes close to paying for itself". No part of the CBC actually makes a profit; as per the above, that's the point...

(They don't break down the expenses on radio vs. TV services in the annual reports and haven't for a while now, but historically it was 50/50ish.)

You said the tax payer wouldn’t see any savings. How was I supposed to interpret it other than the pieces I was proposing cutting are at least breaking even for the corporation?

Yes, those are the existing goals of the corporation, I want to narrow the focus.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Locke

The thing that annoys me the most about the CBC is that its just bad.

I really enjoy a lot of ABC and BBC content, but the CBC? Everything about it seems....amateur. Its just low quality.

Part of the problem (in my view) is that we don’t seem to put enough effort into creating opportunities for Canadian talent to shine and find good work and since we’re neighbours to US and the lure of Hollywood and all that it becomes a substantial issue.

You look at the BBC and there is mountains of content, many actors staying within the ecosystem playing roles in multiple programs, younger British actors getting their start, longer production timelines (which would be tough to get Canadian audiences used to). They’re also funded at 3x the amount, but even with that aside, there’s just a bigger commitment to fostering talent and creating something worthwhile.

Dunno if the CBC could ever be the BBC, but it’d be nice.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Locke

I always find it interesting that you just naturally gravitate to equating Money to Quality.

Just pay more and it'll be better because thats a natural, linear and immutable relationship.

T'was a jest!

[Azure]

If we spend $1 billion per year on news, local news, local sports, radio I am fine with that.

If CBC can't cover for 1/4 of that with income, big deal.

The point being that we should get more out of what we pay as taxpayers, and by more I mean more of the the things nobody else will spend money on.

Local News & things like CBC Marketplace which is just fantastic and an important part of consumer (taxpayer) protection.
Local Sports
Local Radio

Then you look at things like Canada wide news where there are more players & international news, where there are even more players and see where CBC fits in.

I think they do a decent job on both those things as well.

Those things provide max value to the taxpayer.

TV programming where you are competing against deep pocketed private corporations do not provide value.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Azure

If we spend $1 billion per year on news, local news, local sports, radio I am fine with that.

If CBC can't cover for 1/4 of that with income, big deal.

The point being that we should get more out of what we pay as taxpayers, and by more I mean more of the the things nobody else will spend money on.

Local News & things like CBC Marketplace which is just fantastic and an important part of consumer (taxpayer) protection.
Local Sports
Local Radio

Then you look at things like Canada wide news where there are more players & international news, where there are even more players and see where CBC fits in.

I think they do a decent job on both those things as well.

Those things provide max value to the taxpayer.

TV programming where you are competing against deep pocketed private corporations do not provide value.

This is a genuine question. Do you believe CBC has a role to play in thr Arts?

The Arts wasn't mentioned in your post, but that could have been innocently left out, or it could be prusposely with fair reasoning. I'm curious your thoughts as we agree on a lot of what you stated.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by Locke

The thing that annoys me the most about the CBC is that its just bad.

I really enjoy a lot of ABC and BBC content, but the CBC? Everything about it seems....amateur. Its just low quality.

So do you mean just CBC like, that one channel or the CBC entire? Because if you'e judging it by its main one channel then okay you have a point, but they're more than that.

CBC Radio is just fantastic, especially for some of the investigative journalism and the podcasts. Ambush, As iIt Happens, Boushie, Escaping NVIVM, Finding Cleo, Slumtown etc. I do miss DNTO and Wiretap however. CBC produces some high quality productions, just not their sitcoms, those are trash, which I assume is what you meant.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

So do you mean just CBC like, that one channel or the CBC entire? Because if you'e judging it by its main one channel then okay you have a point, but they're more than that.

CBC Radio is just fantastic, especially for some of the investigative journalism and the podcasts. Ambush, As iIt Happens, Boushie, Escaping NVIVM, Finding Cleo, Slumtown etc. I do miss DNTO and Wiretap however. CBC produces some high quality productions, just not their sitcoms, those are trash, which I assume is what you meant.

I've largely relied on the CBC for news, there are occasions when I've found their investigative journalism to have been quite good, but its not even remotely what I watch on other platforms.

But their 'main one channel' as you put it...shouldnt suck.

Because the premise of 'if you dont like it, its not the product's problem, you're simply not digging deep enough' is pretty obtuse.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

So do you mean just CBC like, that one channel or the CBC entire? Because if you'e judging it by its main one channel then okay you have a point, but they're more than that.

CBC Radio is just fantastic, especially for some of the investigative journalism and the podcasts. Ambush, As iIt Happens, Boushie, Escaping NVIVM, Finding Cleo, Slumtown etc. I do miss DNTO and Wiretap however. CBC produces some high quality productions, just not their sitcoms, those are trash, which I assume is what you meant.

They aren't all terrible. Little show called Schitt's Creek got pretty good reviews.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by Locke

Because the premise of 'if you dont like it, its not the product's problem, you're simply not digging deep enough' is pretty obtuse.

None of that makes sense, stop. I'm saying there is a depth of productions beyond their main one channel.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Opinion column.

When we need money for things like health care, why are we throwing money away on things like this?

There is money that is available for healthcare, if the provinces show the receipts that they spent it on healthcare.

The provinces refuse, wanting it to go into general revenue instead so they can spend it wherever they want.

Isn’t this what we should be talking about?

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...l-health-care/


https://www.healthcoalition.ca/provi...-care-funding/

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pre...ding-1.6518043

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

So do you mean just CBC like, that one channel or the CBC entire? Because if you'e judging it by its main one channel then okay you have a point, but they're more than that.

CBC Radio is just fantastic, especially for some of the investigative journalism and the podcasts. Ambush, As iIt Happens, Boushie, Escaping NVIVM, Finding Cleo, Slumtown etc. I do miss DNTO and Wiretap however. CBC produces some high quality productions, just not their sitcoms, those are trash, which I assume is what you meant.

They also make some pretty great documentaries as well.