Religions doing awful things

[Monahammer]

[81MC]

Originally Posted by Slava

Let's just leave the buddhists out of this and let others have their fun.

https://www.pulitzer.org/files/2014/...euters2014.pdf

More recently, https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/08/w...tant-rise.html
No way man. Not one square mile of inhabited land on this planet is free from the atrocity carries out by religious folk.

[btimbit]

I was raised Catholic, and as a young boy had an Assistant Pastor sexually assault some young members of the church, and rather than be charged he was transferred to Saskatchewan.

I had a long post typed up here about how while I respect religion but hate the way humans weaponize it and use religious teaching to pursue their own goals, but at the end of the day religion overall is good. But I had a hard time finding a way to convey that message that wasn't several paragraphs long and had several "but's" and "what if's. So I deleted that mess and would rather just say this instead: The basis of each religion is something I think we can all agree on. Don't harm others, treat others well, peace be upon ye, etc etc. But organized religion is no different than any other institution organized by man, it's flawed and serves nothing but its own purposes, and needs to die. Corrupt and should at least pay taxes that the rest of us would need to pay in order to peddle our lies and deceit.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I was raised Catholic, and as a young boy had an Assistant Pastor sexually assault some young members of the church, and rather than be charged he was transferred to Saskatchewan.

I had a long post typed up here about how while I respect religion but hate the way humans weaponize it and use religious teaching to pursue their own goals, but at the end of the day religion overall is good. But I had a hard time finding a way to convey that message that wasn't several paragraphs long and had several "but's" and "what if's. So I deleted that mess and would rather just say this instead: The basis of each religion is something I think we can all agree on. Don't harm others, treat others well, peace be upon ye, etc etc. But organized religion is no different than any other institution organized by man, it's flawed and serves nothing but its own purposes, and needs to die. Corrupt and should at least pay taxes that the rest of us would need to pay in order to peddle our lies and deceit.

God this makes my blood boil. Why does this organization (or any organization, like the Blackhawks) protect abusers? It looks worse to protect them rather than expelling them from your organization and reporting them to the authorities to be punished.

If you turn a blind eye to the abuse of anyone, especially a child, you are guilty and culpable and I hate you.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by blankall

Most research shows that religious people live longer than non-religious people by a significant margin (4 years):

This doesn't jive with the statistics. Countries whose citizens have the longest lifespans (e.g. Japan, South Korea, Norway, Sweden, Iceland, etc.) also have very low rates of religious participation. In Norway, for example, only 3% of the population attends church each week, yet it has the third-highest lifespan in the OECD. Additionally, atheists outnumber believers in that country.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

God this makes my blood boil. Why does this organization (or any organization, like the Blackhawks) protect abusers? It looks worse to protect them rather than expelling them from your organization and reporting them to the authorities to be punished.

If you turn a blind eye to the abuse of anyone, especially a child, you are guilty and culpable and I hate you.

My initial thought is that organizations don't take a stronger stance against this stuff because it is potentially so prevalent that they could lose a lot of "good" people if they cracked down on it. It is more lucrative to turn a blind eye or try to cover things up.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

My initial thought is that organizations don't take a stronger stance against this stuff because it is potentially so prevalent that they could lose a lot of "good" people if they cracked down on it. It is more lucrative to turn a blind eye or try to cover things up.

Just as Jesus intended.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

God this makes my blood boil. Why does this organization (or any organization, like the Blackhawks) protect abusers? It looks worse to protect them rather than expelling them from your organization and reporting them to the authorities to be punished.

If you turn a blind eye to the abuse of anyone, especially a child, you are guilty and culpable and I hate you.

I still don't how Catholics can still believe in God when you have 1000s of priests sexually assaulting kids.

I was brainwashed for 12 years of my life going to a Catholic School.
Do better God!

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Playfair

I am a believer and a follower of Jesus Christ, Yeshua. That may not be popular

Um there are like two and a half billion of you people. In Canada it's well over half (last number I saw was something like 63%) are you really trying to suggest you're some sort of oppressed minority?

These kinds of things have happened for centuries by people who claim to follow and know God, but who, by their actions, do not represent Him.

Aye, no true Scotsman would ever do such a thing.

Oversimplification is kind of unavoidable, but in general, religion itself - all ideologically motivated communities - are inherently flawed as a means of organizing people because they will always produce bad results no matter how innocuous or well-intentioned their adherents may be. Individually, religions are better or worse than others depending on their tenets and what those tenets drive people to do (e.g. filtering water through cheese cloth to avoid killing so much as an insect toward one end of the spectrum, suicide bombing toward the other). This guy didn't get the idea that demonic possession was a real problem that needs to be solved by performing an exorcism out of nowhere.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

I still don't how Catholics can still believe in God when you have 1000s of priests sexually assaulting kids.

I was brainwashed for 12 years of my life going to a Catholic School.
Do better God!

Pretty easy answer. God doesn't interfere with free will.

A priest is just a person and commits abuse of his own free will; it has nothing to do with the Catholic God.

[Derek Sutton]

Muslims stone gays and beat women, Mormons are racist, Catholics molest children, Jews won't pick up the tab, Jehovah Witnesses will let their child die before accepting a blood transfusion. Am I doing this right?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Muslims stone gays and beat women, Mormons are racist, Catholics molest children, Jews won't pick up the tab, Jehovah Witnesses will let their child die before accepting a blood transfusion. Am I doing this right?

The anti-Semitic one seems a bit offside.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

This doesn't jive with the statistics. Countries whose citizens have the longest lifespans (e.g. Japan, South Korea, Norway, Sweden, Iceland, etc.) also have very low rates of religious participation. In Norway, for example, only 3% of the population attends church each week, yet it has the third-highest lifespan in the OECD. Additionally, atheists outnumber believers in that country.

I mean, that article linked multiple peer reviewed studies, so literally that is the relevant statistics. People in wealthy countries with healthy lifestyles also live longer, but that's a separate factor from whether religious observance improves lifespan. There are all sorts of factors that impact lifespan (gender, marital status, exercise, etc). Just because religious observance doesn't outweigh things like good nutrition and health care doesn't make it immaterial.

[pseudoreality]

Originally Posted by blankall

Most research shows that religious people live longer than non-religious people by a significant margin (4 years):

https://www.livescience.com/62809-re...longevity.html

You can't conclude that religion has overall negative effects. The solution isn't to ban religion, but instead just to simply enforce laws. We already have laws that prevent people from denying medical treatment to children having seizures. Just enforce those.

Four more years of a wasted life worshiping the make-believe and oppressing those that don't follow your beliefs? No thanks.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I mean, that article linked multiple peer reviewed studies, so literally that is the relevant statistics. People in wealthy countries with healthy lifestyles also live longer, but that's a separate factor from whether religious observance improves lifespan. There are all sorts of factors that impact lifespan (gender, marital status, exercise, etc). Just because religious observance doesn't outweigh things like good nutrition and health care doesn't make it immaterial.

At best religion positively affecting lifespan seems like a weak correlation and not a causation. It's not a mystery what is responsible for statistically increasing lifespans across national populations: low food scarcity, universal access to quality healthcare, a healthy national diet, a strong social safety net, and a culture that has good aggregate physical fitness levels. This is why countries that fit the above (like Japan), have statistically longer lifespans despite very low rates of religious participation while countries that do not fit the above (like Brazil and the United States) have statistically shorter lifespans despite higher rates of religious participation.

[Weitz]

Nvm

[djsFlames]

Always been a proponent for practicing your beliefs and principles wherever you go, but not chaining yourself to a specific church or group. There is as much drama, guilt tripping and questionable behahiour as there is in offices/work circles.

Its when you become an integrated member of one of those communities when things start to get away from the core purposes that they were built on, because then there are expectations and people that take it way more seriously than others. You can volunteer and offer services when you want to give without committing yourself indefinitely.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Muslims stone gays and beat women, Mormons are racist, Catholics molest children, Jews won't pick up the tab, Jehovah Witnesses will let their child die before accepting a blood transfusion. Am I doing this right?

Umm, no.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

This doesn't jive with the statistics. Countries whose citizens have the longest lifespans (e.g. Japan, South Korea, Norway, Sweden, Iceland, etc.) also have very low rates of religious participation. In Norway, for example, only 3% of the population attends church each week, yet it has the third-highest lifespan in the OECD. Additionally, atheists outnumber believers in that country.

What constitutes a religion based on that information though? Not all religion is Catholicism, Christianity, Islam.

In Japan, I think you'd have a lot of Shintoism or Buddhism, no?

South Korea actually has a lot of Christians if I'm not mistaken (which is why pastors supposedly keep getting caught in North Korea), but this country too should have Buddhism and other religions as well, should it not?


But there are many times where people hear religion (or lack thereof) and they end up making strange assumptions.

VBS/Bible camp is to my knowledge often a bible themed education or athletic summer camp. It is in the same way computer camp, sports camp, summer school or other camps that are themed slightly differently. Bible camp is the topic those parents wanted the kids to focus on during the summer rather than other topics. If I'm not mistaken, it's a bunch of kids singing songs and trying to achieve spiritual education. The exorcism thing is bad. I don't disagree. This is IMO no different than other non-bible camps with idiot counselors violating the health and safety guidelines in place though.

Non religious example, imagine an urban survival camp and the idiots in charge thought it would be a great idea to demonstrate tasering a kid as part of that demonstration. Kids are freaked out, total violation of health and safety, idiots defend what they did... I'd argue that camp was run by idiots rather than all urban survival camps have an indoctrination backbone that is detrimental to kids.

I would also heavily agree with the comments that there's a failure of certain disciplinary bodies to reprimand people who do that. But I wouldn't broad brush.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

This doesn't jive with the statistics. Countries whose citizens have the longest lifespans (e.g. Japan, South Korea, Norway, Sweden, Iceland, etc.) also have very low rates of religious participation. In Norway, for example, only 3% of the population attends church each week, yet it has the third-highest lifespan in the OECD. Additionally, atheists outnumber believers in that country.

You're comparing societies with different levels of development. Within societies, you do generally see religious people living longer.

The effects you're talking about are likely due to difference in diet, overall development, and access to medical care. You've also excluded Spain and Italy, where people remain quite religious.

If you provide people with lots of health care and a coastal diet, they will live longer. They will also live longer if they consume less drugs, alcohol, and tobacco products.

Even in Japan, for example, people live longest in Okinawa. It's also very religious there.

There is a very good argument to make that religious conservatism can stifle economic development. The best combo seems to be living in a place with high economic development and living a more religious lifestyle though.