Stats: Before and After the Great Suttering of 2021

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Backlunds 14 points in 19 games doesnt surprise you?

Considering the way you talk about him I thought that would be a big shocker!

Nah. Backlund can be an absolute beast at times. We’ve seen it. If Sutter can draw that out of him more consistently that contract becomes a non-issue, I hope he can keep it up - he’s also playing for the best coach he’s ever played for. When Sutter came in, it was a big reset for me on all players.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Sutter seems to really like Monahan. The previous line obviously wasn’t working. His new line worked well the first game, but dropped off a bit. The younger guys both have had young guy consistency issues in the past so it’s too early to tell. On paper that line should work.

I’d imagine Monahan’s ES ice time has dropped since the line switch compared to Lindholm. Monahan’s line takes really short shifts which I think is too bad, because they aren’t on long enough to develop plays. Monahan is also getting less PP time because he’s not on Unit 1 and he’s been put on PK which evens out the ice time, but obviously not the production.

I think Sutter is trying to salvage some value and production from Monny.

Monny can’t shoot, so Sutter is trying to turn him into a defensively responsible checking centre. Perhaps at some stage Monny will rediscover his shot, which I think is injury related. But he hasn’t had it for quite some time.

I think Monny was the player who was holding Johnny back.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I think Sutter is trying to salvage some value and production from Monny.

Monny can’t shoot, so Sutter is trying to turn him into a defensively responsible checking centre. Perhaps at some stage Monny will rediscover his shot, which I think is injury related. But he hasn’t had it for quite some time.

I think Monny was the player who was holding Johnny back.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Sutter is lying about Monahan then, which isn’t his MO. Sutter uses truth strategically, but he seems pretty genuine talking about Monahan.

Sutter loves defence, so he likes Monahan’s effort to improve his D.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Nah. Backlund can be an absolute beast at times. We’ve seen it. If Sutter can draw that out of him more consistently that contract becomes a non-issue, I hope he can keep it up - he’s also playing for the best coach he’s ever played for. When Sutter came in, it was a big reset for me on all players.

By far the most flattering thing I've ever seen you say about Backlund. Kudos on the reset, fair way to assess again.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I think Sutter is trying to salvage some value and production from Monny.

Monny can’t shoot, so Sutter is trying to turn him into a defensively responsible checking centre. Perhaps at some stage Monny will rediscover his shot, which I think is injury related. But he hasn’t had it for quite some time.

I think Monny was the player who was holding Johnny back.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

lol. That’s rich

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Sutter is lying about Monahan then, which isn’t his MO. Sutter uses truth strategically, but he seems pretty genuine talking about Monahan.

Sutter loves defence, so he likes Monahan’s effort to improve his D.

Absolutely. But he also has noticed his declining offensive skills.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Jeff Lebowski]

Look at the stats since the EDM (5-0) game, April 10, where CGY made new lines and new D pairings:

http://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?rep...=0&pageSize=50

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Gaudreau
Dube - Monahan - Mangiapane
Lucic - Backlund - Nordstrom
Leivo - Ryan - Ritchie

Gio - Tanev
Hanifin - Andersson
Valimaki - Stone

Markstrom (look at his with new look too)
http://www.nhl.com/stats/goalies?rep...=0&pageSize=50

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Absolutely. But he also has noticed his declining offensive skills.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Maybe, but Sutter also, rightly or wrongly, figures that if his team scores 2 they should win.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Maybe, but Sutter also, rightly or wrongly, figures that if his team scores 2 they should win.

Unfortunately the goaltending stats for this team don't back that up especially when combined with the amount of miscues and turnovers this team commits. I'm not anti-Darryl but he's basically barking up the same tree as Brent here and this team doesn't have nearly the size of the team he had in LA that could play a heavy game and wear down their opponents. I'm all for a team that plays the right way but I'm not a fan of the mindset that you need to put a cap on how many goals you need to score to win games. 2 or even 3 goals for isn't going to cut it a lot of nights no matter how well you play defensively.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Unfortunately the goaltending stats for this team don't back that up especially when combined with the amount of miscues and turnovers this team commits. I'm not anti-Darryl but he's basically barking up the same tree as Brent here and this team doesn't have nearly the size of the team he had in LA that could play a heavy game and wear down their opponents. I'm all for a team that plays the right way but I'm not a fan of the mindset that you need to put a cap on how many goals you need to score to win games. 2 or even 3 goals for isn't going to cut it a lot of nights no matter how well you play defensively.

It's true. It's also true that this team, including Gaudreau and Lindholm, aren't going to get you those goals. They need more high end consistency. Or they need to change the team makeup.

The goalie stats have to be tempered and filtered both pre-and post Sutter, pre-Markstrom injury, post-Markstrom injury and recent Markstrom, who I think has now healed up.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Maybe, but Sutter also, rightly or wrongly, figures that if his team scores 2 they should win.

He said it is a 3-2 league not a 2-1 league

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

He said it is a 3-2 league not a 2-1 league

That doesn’t really change the analysis does it.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Some team stats ...

CF60
Before 55.1
After 56.1

CA60
Before 53.4
After 47.7

SF60
Before 29.6
After 28.7

SA60
Before 30.7
After 25.8

xGF60
Before 2.26
After 2.09

xGA60
Before 2.10
After 1.88

HDCF60
Before 10.6
After 9.0

HDCA60
Before 10.1
After 8.5

MCF60
Before 15.8
After 16.8

MDCA60
Before 14.9
After 14.4

LDCF60
Before 24.6
After 26.8

HDCA60
Before 24.7
After 21.7

SH%
Before 7.9%
After 7.8%

SV%
Before 92.2%
After 89.8%

Would be interesting to see the team's record if they had Ward's save percentage.

It's funny, you improve the underlying numbers and start doing things a hell of a lot better in front of the goalies, then the goalies stop making the saves for you.

Team just can't get any breaks this year. Thats both on them but also not, as some games they do many more things right then not but still end up drawing the short end of the stick.

Problem is they have this tendency to pity themselves when things don't go their way, then backslide for several games before getting back to basics again.

Need to leave those habits behind with this putrid season.

[Vinny01]

Nm

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

That doesn’t really change the analysis does it.

Well, if Calgary is the team scoring two, it means he expects them to lose, instead of winning.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Well, if Calgary is the team scoring two, it means he expects them to lose, instead of winning.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I think Darryl was just being generous. I think 2-1 is better than 3-2 to him.

Either way, he coaches defence over offence.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Some team stats ...

SV%
Before 92.2%
After 89.8%

Would be interesting to see the team's record if they had Ward's save percentage.

Since March 5th the Flames have faced 639 shots. 2.4% of 639 is 15.3. If we'd had that Wardian save percentage, instead of being -7 under Sutter we'd be +8 and likely something like 13-8 instead of 8-13.

However, looking at the stats closer, something is wrong. Because NHL.com has us allowing 59 goals in that span, but 580 saves on 639 shots is a .907 save percentage?

If the difference is only 1.5%, then that's 9.5 goals and we're sitting at +2 and probably right around .500 under Sutter.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by driveway

Since March 5th the Flames have faced 639 shots. 2.4% of 639 is 15.3. If we'd had that Wardian save percentage, instead of being -7 under Sutter we'd be +8 and likely something like 13-8 instead of 8-13.

However, looking at the stats closer, something is wrong. Because NHL.com has us allowing 59 goals in that span, but 580 saves on 639 shots is a .907 save percentage?

If the difference is only 1.5%, then that's 9.5 goals and we're sitting at +2 and probably right around .500 under Sutter.

5 on 5 vs all situations.

And it's not equal ... five on five the Flames are giving up 1.6 less high danger chances per 60, 0.4 less medium danger chances per 60, and 3.1 less low danger chances per 60.

The goalies have had less action.

This isn't to say the roster is great, and it's all goaltending. The Flames are getting less high danger chances per 60 under Sutter than they did under Ward, and they were far from a polished offence then.

But a bit better of goaltending would certainly have resulted in a different record, and a much tighter race than what we have now ... guessing Calgary would be ahead of Montreal with the games in hand being the factor to watch.

[GioforPM]

Eye test only but lately I’ve seen less chances against under Sutter but what chances there are are great. Like wide open two on ones, Toffoli floating in, giveaways to the slot etc.

[Classic_Sniper]

I think conundrum for the Flames and really every other team in the league is, if you play a more defensive system like Sutter has implemented, can you score enough goals when you take less offensive risks. Conversely, with a Peters/Ward type of system, you’re free to take more risks, so if that’s the case, can you outscore your opponent often enough or keep enough out of your own net?

It’s the great hockey tug of war: find the right balance of the 2. Do you want to win 2-1 or 3-2. I think even in the Iggy/Reggie era, this was probably a huge source of contention in the dressing room as Rhett has mentioned. Iginla wanted more offensive freedom and to win 3-2 whereas Regehr wanted to play more conservatively and win 2-1.

Regardless, I think based on what I’ve seen. This core and team can’t seem to get it done playing either system. They give up too much playing under Ward/Peters and now they can’t score enough under Darryl’s system now thaglt they’ve shored up their defensive end.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk