[PGT] Blues 3 Flames 2 I'm sad edition

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Meh. Phil Kessel won 2 cups being in my shape. Johnny will be fine.

Phil won playing on mostly the third line, with two top three centres on his team taking a lot of the heat off.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Phil won playing on mostly the third line, with two top three centres on his team taking a lot of the heat off.

One of which being the best player in the league. The other, a #1 c on most teams.

[Toonage]

At the risk of totally derailing this (which isn't a bad thing at this point) What do Phil's teammates have to do with Phil being able to play the game in less than game shape? Its still him hauling his butt up and down the ice regardless of who he is playing with. And its not like he logged 4L minutes playing with nobodies.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Toonage

At the risk of totally derailing this (which isn't a bad thing at this point) What do Phil's teammates have to do with Phil being able to play the game in less than game shape? Its still him hauling his butt up and down the ice regardless of who he is playing with. And its not like he logged 4L minutes playing with nobodies.

Because no one was relying on him carrying the team offensively.

The opposite is true for Gaudreau.

[gamesaver]

Originally Posted by the2bears

As one of the Brodie Irrationalists, can you back your claim up?

In a season when Brodie was playing with a Norris Trophy winner, he had 100 giveaways

Giordano: 78 games, 74 points, 73 takeaways, 65 giveaways

Brodie: 79 games, 34 points, 68 takeaways, 100 giveaways.

Gio winning the Norris with Brodie as his linemate is a very underrated feat. Brodie is a d-zone disaster, this guy is scoring on Rittich more then any other player in the league. His own team mate. Let that sink in

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Toonage

At the risk of totally derailing this (which isn't a bad thing at this point) What do Phil's teammates have to do with Phil being able to play the game in less than game shape? Its still him hauling his butt up and down the ice regardless of who he is playing with. And its not like he logged 4L minutes playing with nobodies.

He did play less minutes, like below 18mpg from over 20, and he did play against lesser opposition, so his fitness wasn't as big an issue. But moreover, you said "won a couple cups". So did a whole bunch of guys on Pittsburgh - I don't think Kessel's fitness or lack thereof had anything to do with it - he was just in a really good situation.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by gamesaver

In a season when Brodie was playing with a Norris Trophy winner, he had 100 giveaways

Giordano: 78 games, 74 points, 73 takeaways, 65 giveaways

Brodie: 79 games, 34 points, 68 takeaways, 100 giveaways.

Gio winning the Norris with Brodie as his linemate is a very underrated feat. Brodie is a d-zone disaster, this guy is scoring on Rittich more then any other player in the league. His own team mate. Let that sink in

That doesn't back up the claim that "(Brodie) is directly responsible for costing us about the same amount of goals". Yet you jumped right from "100 giveaways" to "scoring on Rittich more then (sic) any other player in the league."

So, let what sink in?

[gamesaver]

Originally Posted by the2bears

That doesn't back up the claim that "(Brodie) is directly responsible for costing us about the same amount of goals". Yet you jumped right from "100 giveaways" to "scoring on Rittich more then (sic) any other player in the league."

So, let what sink in?

At this point I have to ask you though, are you actually watching Flames games? Because you are asking for evidence, but it was right in front of your eyes the whole season. It's a matter of preference if you want to see it or ask people over and over again to prove it really happened. I don't have time to go through hours of footage to put together a clip, only to be disregarded as cherry-picking or countered by some 2014 Brodie highlights. Also I tried really hard to find one but looks like not a single site is counting "own-goals". There are plenty of those in hockey, but by what I have said earlier I didn't mean deflecting a shot off the shin pads into your own goal. I am talking about active attempts to play the puck in front of your own net which ends up going in. One example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkapLXGLCKc

When talking about lethal giveaways hurting this team, theres a series changer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOqsbAh25BA

But to put more credit into it, this is not coming out of my head, this is actually discussed for quite some time in the media, only fans biased to T.J. don't want to hear it. But see for yourself:

https://theathletic.com/226473/2018/...-of-tj-brodie/

https://calgarysun.com/sports/hockey...gs-from-brodie

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...ns-t-j-brodie/

I will go as far as saying that trading Brodie has become almost impossible as no team is really interested in adding a defensive liability to play top or second pairing minutes while having to pay something in return which would be interesting for us.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I fundamentally agree with this, but is it an absolute that Gaudreau is not committed to fitness? Is he less fit than Kane, Hall, McKinnon and other elite players?

A guy like McDavid certainly seems fitter given the ice time he is carrying. Crosby too.

How well do we know what Gaudreau's off ice commitment is? Yeah he's not Gio or Iginla fitness level (or Frolik for that matter) but do we know if he is improving and/or where he stands relative to the league. I agree there isn't much visibly happening in the way of strength building.

Just curious what if fact vs. fiction more than anything else. He does sometimes look tired. He is not alone in that.

I mean, just look at him.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I mean, just look at him.

Okay?

This on its own is not especially informative regarding Gaudreau's fitness, and certainly not whether it might be a hindrance to his on-ice performance.

[Rando]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I mean, just look at him.

Genius.

[Flash Walken]

Every player not in peak condition is a hindrance to their performance.

This is pro sports were talking about here. The Flames are raving about the impact proper training has had for Rittich.

Look at what it's done for Gio. Look what it did for iginla. Patrick Kane credits it with his peak performance. Chara. Stamkos compares kucherovs work ethic to St.Louis.

If Gaudreau looks mentally weak right now, that stuff starts away from the ice.

Anyway, I don't need to evangelize this any further, but if you want to be a top player in the NHL you have to put in the work whether you 5'9 or 6'9. It's not enough to be the most naturally gifted. If you want to be at the top of your game you have to train like it, and there is no better or more striking example than the captain of the team.

[SuperMatt18]

There is no evidence that it's 100% that Gaudreau is out of shape, but it wouldn't surprise me.

He looks a bit slow and lethargic on the ice this year. Not creating separation as much as usual, skating is not as dynamic, and he is playing more slow.

Whether that's all mental or it's physical too is hard for us to tell but it's pretty clear he's not at his peak right now.

And I do think part of it is him just settling for outside shots this year - look at the teams shot map with him on the ice:



That is a lot of low percentage shots outside the danger area from his side of the ice.

I can't share the last year view since it's restricted to subscribers but it's pretty much deep red right in front of the nice, and right up the middle of the ice. He's just settling for low percentage shots right now.

[Bingo]

I have zero knowledge of Gaudreau's fitness level, none.

His issues are mental. Could he be in better shape? Sure, but I think he gets in trouble when he gets frustrated and forces things. I've never doubted his GAM, just his ability to put the scope away and use the force.

[Resolute 14]

Flash, your argument is nothing more than "Gaudreau is out of shape because I say so". Well, your say so isn't worth a can of beans.

[CsInMyBlood]

With Gaudreau it's obviously mental. But diet definitely plays into your mental health. I know this for a fact because two years ago I changed up my lifestyle. Its night and day.

Hes a high risk, high reward player, so when things arent clicking he looks bad. Its a game of inches, that pass he tried that got picked off and is going the other way could have just as easily been an amazing pass that finds Monahan wide open in the slot.

Lots of hockey to be played. Peters is aware of the weight on Johnny. He has made reference to handling him correctly and not coming down on him more than once. Im confident Johnny will find joy again.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I have zero knowledge of Gaudreau's fitness level, none.

His issues are mental. Could he be in better shape? Sure, but I think he gets in trouble when he gets frustrated and forces things. I've never doubted his GAM, just his ability to put the scope away and use the force.

I don't totally understand the bolded part, but I like it.

I do think it's tricky business questioning a pro athlete's commitment to their craft. No doubt some guys are more committed than others, but hard to evaluate from afar.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I don't totally understand the bolded part, but I like it.

I do think it's tricky business questioning a pro athlete's commitment to their craft. No doubt some guys are more committed than others, but hard to evaluate from afar.

Use his instinct, and stop over thinking looking for the perfect play.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I don't totally understand the bolded part, but I like it.

I do think it's tricky business questioning a pro athlete's commitment to their craft. No doubt some guys are more committed than others, but hard to evaluate from afar.

When Luke is trying to blow up the death star Obi Wan tells him to use the force Luke, so he puts the scope away and relies on his instincts and feel.

Yes I'm a nerd.

[Toonage]

Johnny closes his eyes...runs into the boards

Some dude stands up and yells EAT A SALAD