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Old 05-27-2022, 09:02 PM   #1
Mathgod
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Flames The Negatives & Positives of '21-'22, and Future Outlook

For many different reasons (some of them good and some of them bad), these past 8 months as a Flames fan have been nothing short of remarkable, and extremely memorable. Having taken time to decompress after last night’s roller coaster of emotions, I would like to share my thoughts and perspectives on what has unfolded over these past 8 months. This write up will be divided into 3 sections: the negatives, the positives, and future outlook. Yes, I will drill hard on the negatives, but I will also emphasize the positives, and the third section will not be a doom-and-gloom diatribe. If you don’t want to read negative things being said about people in the organization, either skip over the negative part, or tough your way through it knowing there are many positive things to be said in the following sections.

Anyhow, without further ado, let’s get into it.


The Negatives

There’s no point in beating around the bush here. The elephant in the room needs to be talked about. Simply put: this team ran out of gas in the playoffs. The team was tired. The forwards were tired, the defensemen were tired, the goaltender was tired. You could see it from the early part of the 2nd period of game 2 after the team went up 3-1, from that point on the Flames just weren’t keeping pace with the Oilers and could not skate with them. It wasn’t just that, it was also the bobbled pucks constantly hopping off sticks, the lack of crispness in handling the puck, turnovers, having difficulties making and receiving passes, missing the net on shot attempts disturbingly often, and too much harmless perimeter play in the offensive zone. All of that on top of sluggish decision making and numerous miscues by Flames’ defensemen leading to goals against, coupled with subpar goaltending, and multiple injuries to the team’s most important defenseman... and the result was four straight disappointing losses.

This team’s mental fortitude and crispness, along with great team speed and pace of play, that had propelled them to so much regular season success, just wasn’t there in this series. This week they looked very much like a fatigued team that didn’t lack will or determination, but had simply run out of gas.

Before getting into what I believe is the reason for why this happened, please understand, I fully acknowledge that Darryl Sutter is one of the greatest and most accomplished head coaches of all time; the result of this series doesn’t change that. He has won 2 Stanley Cups, 3 if you count the one he was cheated out of. He does a better job of getting the most out of his players than any coach I’ve ever seen in the sport of hockey. He is a coaching legend, and that is how he will go down in hockey lore.

However

He really dropped the ball on this one. He messed up in the way he managed his players in the latter part of the season. Sorry, but that’s the truth. He badly miscalculated the reality of this covid-condensed season and how his players would be impacted in the long run. What makes it even more mystifying is that by his own words the schedule was “borderline illegal” in the way it was making his team play so many games in so few nights. Somewhere along the line he should have taken a mental note of how much extra toll the condensed schedule was taking on his players, but it seems like he neglected to do that. Somebody, ANYBODY please explain to me why Darryl was playing his full lineup for the final 3-game road trip after the division was already locked up? I mean, what the ####, man... you basically prioritized tiring out your players in meaningless games over having them rested for the playoffs. You threw away a golden opportunity to give your key players a chance to rest up for a full week and recharge their batteries in preparation for a long grueling playoff run. But oh no, apparently that’s not Darryl’s way. Have to keep running the guys as hard as possible without the slightest relent, hoping they are infinitely enduring machines that never experience fatigue no matter what.

Seriously man, it’s like you didn’t learn a god###n thing from the 2006 playoffs. ####

When I saw the lineups for those 3 games, though I was petrified by what I saw, I bit my tongue and didn’t say anything, thinking to myself this is the legendary Darryl Sutter, and he knows exactly why he’s doing this, and he must know that his team is much fresher than they appear to be to fans/outside observers. So I stayed quiet and told myself not to worry about it. In Sutter We Trust! Whoops...

Johnny, Chucky, Lindy, Tanev, Hanifin, Ras, and Marky absolutely should have had that entire week off. In their place, big minutes should have been given to guys like Ruzicka, Carpenter, Richie, Stone, Mackey, Valimaki. Really there’s no justification for making the key players slog it out for those 3 games when they could have been resting.

In the end, the cause of the team’s playoff fatigue was two-fold: a combination of the condensed season schedule, and the style of play that Darryl had his team playing all season. First, let’s talk about the schedule. The Covid outbreak in December wiped out the Olympic break, which would have been a great chance for most of the team to rest and recharge for the stretch run (aside from some guys playing for their Olympic teams). Instead, the Olympic break was wiped out and replaced by 7 home games. The Flames won all 7 games! While it was an amazing win streak and tons of fun to take in as a fan, there was trouble looming on the horizon. Not only did covid cause some games to be rescheduled into the wiped out Olympic break, it also caused a number of games to be shoved into the schedule elsewhere. As a result, in the final 2 months of the season, the Flames had to endure a hellish stretch of 31 games crammed into 60 nights. But you might be thinking, at least the Flames had the covid break back in December, almost 3 weeks long, to recharge and refresh? Well, it’s not quite that simple, as covid ripped it’s through the locker room, it took a toll on the team. It’s a nasty virus and not just a simple cold or flu. Case in point, the team lost 5 of 8 games coming out of the covid break. So the covid pause wasn’t exactly the kind of rest break that it otherwise could have been.

All told, this was a hectic season and a difficult one for the players to endure. I absolutely don’t get the sense that Sutter took all of this into account when assessing how to manage his players’ workloads. He seems to have a number in his head of how many minutes each player should play... but it seems he didn’t adjust for covid outbreak, lost Olympic break, and ultra-condensed schedule. This, evidently, played a big part in the Flames’ hasty exit from round 2 of the SC playoffs to their provincial rival.

But, you might argue, didn’t McDavid and Draisaitl play 25 minutes per night all season long? Didn’t the Oilers have a condensed schedule too? Well, the answer to both of these is yes, BUT! There are two important considerations here. First, their age, they are just 25 and 26 respectively. Second, they didn’t backcheck much during the regular season, and for the most part avoided physical play. Their job in the RS was to rack up as many points as possible, and not worry much about playing a 200 foot game. This, undoubtedly, helped them preserve themselves for the playoffs. Once the playoffs started, they flipped the switch and started playing all 200 feet. The Flames big players, by contrast, played that stellar 200 foot game all season long, then had to battle through a grueling, physical 7 game series vs the Stars, then were running on fumes in round 2.

This leads into the 2nd part of why the Flames were so gassed in this series, the style of play Sutter had them playing all year. Look, it’s wonderful to have the team playing aggressive checking style hockey. It really is great. It got them a division title. But it also took a toll on the players. It’s an exhausting way to play. Expecting your guys to do it for 82 games plus 25+ playoff games is asking a hell of a lot. Expecting your guys to do it for 82 games in a covid-condensed season plus 25+ playoff games... is asking too much. It just is.

So, what’s the solution then? Well, the answer is that the team needs to have multiple different styles of play in their repertoire, not just one style. In games of relatively lower importance vs eastern opponents, the team should be ok with playing a Brodeur-era NJ Devils trap style game, where they basically stay in a defensive posture for most of the game and patiently wait for counter-attacking opportunities. While doing this may cost some regular season points here and there, it’ll help preserve the players for the playoffs. (The other benefit of mastering this type of hockey is that they can go to it at any time they need to, and it can help to suffocate high-octane offenses such as the Oilers’ top 6.)

And really, that’s what more and more coaches are starting to wise up to these days. They’re seeing the wisdom of not emptying the clip in the regular season, instead saving something in the tank for the playoffs. Jon Cooper seems to have this figured out. The mistake of ‘18-’19 was not repeated in Tampa. They no longer go guns blazing trying to win the presidents trophy. They preserve their players for the playoffs, and only do what is necessary to make the playoffs. If we’re being honest, it seems that the Lightning could have won the PT this year if they reeeeeally wanted to. But they know that it serves no real purpose to expend that kind of energy in the RS other than to hurt your chances of going on a deep run in the playoffs. NBA teams had this figured out a long time ago. You see teams load-manage their star players all the time. It’s puzzling to me why some NHL teams still haven’t caught on to this trend in professional sports.

On that note, let’s talk about Marky’s workload this season. 63 RS starts, 7 starts in round one, 5 starts in round two. While Sutter loves to ride his #1 guy hard in the regular season, he’s got to recognize that it’s a strategy that can backfire. He may have got away with doing it with 26 year old Jonathan Quick, but he didn’t get away with doing it with 32 year old Jacob Markström. Marky just looked burned out in this series. Physically he wasn’t quite himself, and mentally he wasn’t quite himself either. People need to understand that the goaltender position is so much more demanding to play at the highest level than it was 30+ years ago. Workloads need to be managed if you expect the best from your goalie come playoff time. It’s no coincidence that Carey Price “Carey’d” his team to the finals after only making 25 RS starts last season. It’s no coincidence that Kipper went god mode for 26 playoff starts after making only 38 RS starts in ‘03-’04. It’s no coincidence that Quick was able to stay solid in the playoffs after the first cup win after having reduced workloads in the next 2 seasons, ultimately winning another Stanley Cup. It’s no coincidence that Binnington made only 30 starts before the cup run with the Blues. It’s hardly a coincidence that Vasilevskiy only made 52 and 42 starts respectively, prior to the back to back cup runs. You could argue that he’s made 63 starts this season, but remember that he’s only 27 and probably become one of the best goalies to ever play the game.

You might argue that Marky had to start as many games as he did in order to have the division title locked up with 4 games still to go in the RS. However, closer inspection of the schedule shows that this isn’t necessarily the case. There were several games where the Flames won via blowout vs weak/rebuilding teams, where Vladar (a very capable backup) could have won most or all of those games if he was playing instead of Marky.

Now let’s talk about the power outage in the 2nd round from what was the best line in the NHL in the regular season. The Flames took a 3-1 lead about 2 minutes into the 2nd period in game 2. Since then, in almost 11 periods, the Flames’ top players’ production was:

Gaudreau 1G, 0A, 1P, -5
Lindholm 1G, 0A, 1P, -5
Tkachuk 0G, 0A, 0P, -5
Total: 2G, 0A, 2P, -15

Not good enough. Sorry guys, yes fatigue was a factor, but even still, this wasn’t nearly good enough. The team needed you to step up here and you didn’t. Gotta make things happen when the series is on the line. You were the lifeblood of this team all season, but you went stone cold when the chips were down. If you were playing through injuries, that would make this more understandable. If you weren’t... yikes... let’s just say... you have to be better at key times in the future.

As for Flames defensemen who struggled in the series vs Oilers:

Hanifin -6
Andersson -5
Gudbranson -4

Yikes. Hopefully this rock bottom and it’s only uphill for these guys from here.

One more thing, Looch, I love you to death, but you gotta retire here man. You can’t keep up with the game anymore.


The Positives

*exhale* Okay, enough with the negatives already! Let’s talk about what did go right this season! The Flames finished with the 2nd most points in franchise history, 111, good for the Pacific Division title, 3rd place in the West, and 6th overall in the NHL standings. The top line of Johnny, Lindy, and Chucky boasted three 40+ goal scorers, two 100+ point scorers, combined for 301 total points, and finished one-two-three in +/- in the NHL, combining for a sparkling +182 rating. This was without a doubt one of the most fun regular seasons to be a Flames fan since the team relocated to Calgary in 1980, and the top line was the number 1 reason why. They were absolute dynamite, and struck fear into the hearts of opponents all year long.

The significance of winning the first round series vs the Stars, and making it past the first round of the playoffs, should not be understated. That overtime goal by Johnny, to beat the seemingly unbeatable Jake Oettinger and put the Flames into the 2nd round, was such a special moment. It was the moment where a lot of pent up frustration from years past was put to ease, as the team got over a hump that they haven’t been able to get over since 2015. Much thanks for the series win must also be directed toward Marky, as he stood tall and kept his team in every game, even in games where his team wasn’t giving him much goal support.

There were some bright spots in the 2nd round series as well:

- After the Oilers tied the first game 6-6, the Flames found 3 more goals in the 3rd period and Marky shut the door, leading to the game 1 win.
- In games 4 and 5, Chris Tanev fought through multiple injuries and enormous pain to try to help his team come back in the series. His courage and sacrifice was nothing short of heroic, and the team was undoubtedly better with him on the ice than without. He finished +3 in the two games he played in the series. He will continue to be the cornerstone of the Flames’ D-core going forward, and one of the main leaders on the team.
- Other Flames who were plus players in the series were Coleman (+4), Kylington (+3), Mangiapane (+3), Stone (+2), Backlund (+2).
- Speaking of Backlund, he stepped up bigtime with 2 points in do-or-die game 5, which would have been 3 points if not for the wrongfully disallowed goal with 6 minutes to go in the 3rd. And let’s not forget, he played an important role all year long on the Flames, shutting down opposing team’s top players.
- Coleman SCORED the series-extending goal, but had it wrongfully taken away. Really he was great all playoffs long, and a steady positive presence on the team all year long.

The level of camaraderie and positive energy among these players all year was such an amazing thing to see. Seeing the Gaudreau family and Tkachuk family (including Sens captain Brady) in the stands cheering on the Flames during the playoffs, was super cool and put smiles on our faces. The introduction of the Red Lot also added to the fan experience, as it was an amazing time for anyone who attended!

There were several other positives for the Flames this year that must be mentioned. First and foremost, none of what happened this season would have been possible without the amazing work of head coach and Jack Adams Award finalist (likely winner) Darryl Sutter. To reiterate, he is, in my opinion, the best coach in NHL history when it comes to getting the most out of his players. He knows how to get each player playing up to his potential and how to get the absolute most out of any roster he is put in charge of. Case in point, in just one year, he took a non-playoff team that had lost its way and turned it into a division winner with a clear identity. He took three talented players with slumping production and turned them into true superstars and one of the most feared lines in hockey.

Let’s also take a moment to admire the season that Jacob Markström had. He was named a finalist for the Vezina trophy; his 9 shutouts not only led the NHL, but was just one shutout shy of Miikka Kiprusoff’s franchise record of 10 shutouts. His .922 save % was tied for 3rd in the NHL, and his 2.22 GAA was good for 3rd in the league. His stellar play all season long was clearly one of the main reasons for the team’s ongoing success throughout the year. He also added a playoff shutout!

Other bright spots include:

- Mangiapane, who had a breakout year, scoring 35 goals, smashing his previous career high
- Kylington, who also turned heads this year, solidifying himself as a bona fide top-4 defenseman on this team
- Andersson, who took major steps forward this year compared to years past
- Hanifin, who was solid all regular season long
- Zadorov and Gudbranson, a D-pairing that played this season at a level above what many fans and pundits felt they were capable of
- Vladar, who proved himself as a very capable backup, and arguably one of the best backups in the league
- Toffoli, who provided important offensive production for this team since coming over from Montreal
- Dube, a young player starting to come into his own, ended the season strong
- Jarnkrok, who performed admirably in a checking role since becoming a Flame


Future Outlook

Not going to sugar coat this but... as everyone knows, the outlook for the Flames’ immediate future depends heavily on whether or not Johnny Gaudreau decides to re-sign in Calgary. If he’s not back, and the Flames don’t sign a big-time player to fill his spot on the #1 line (such as Forsberg), it will be extremely challenging for this team to make the playoffs in 2023, and perhaps in years after that as well.

However, assuming Johnny is re-signed, the future looks bright for the Calgary Flames. One needs to look no further than the Stockton (soon to be Calgary) Heat to see a lot of promise for the Flames forward group in the not too distant future. Pelletier, Zary, Coronato, Phillips, to name a few, are guys who could potentially become contributors on the Flames in the years to come. With a plethora of quality forwards possibly becoming available to the Flames soon, it makes me think about the possibility of moving Tkachuk this offseason in exchange for either a less expensive impact forward (such as Batherson or Stutzle), a quality defenseman, or a package of quality draft picks and/or blue chip prospects. If Tkachuk only signs his one year qualifying offer and then walks for nothing next year, it would be a big blow to this organization. Similar things could be said about Mangiapane. All told, the quality of next year’s team has to be weighed carefully against the long-term success of the team. Needless to say, Tre has some serious, complicated decisions to make in the weeks and months to come.

In net, Dustin Wolf continues to take the AHL by storm, as no one can get a puck past him these days! At just 21 years old, there’s reason to believe that Wolf is the most promising goaltending prospect this organization has had in decades. If all goes well, it seems that he could become the Flames’ backup soon, and perhaps the Flames’ starter a couple of years after that.

On the blue line, Mackey appears ready to make the jump next season. Stone also appears to be a keeper. The Flames appear to be in good shape in the next few years on the blue line, even if one or two free agents (Zadorov and/or Gudbranson) aren’t brought back for 2023.


Personally, I believe this organization is on the right track. Look, it’s easy to look at playoff failures and feel like things aren’t trending in a good direction. But let’s remember that there are plenty of examples of teams that underperformed in the playoffs for many, many years before finally breaking through:

- Most notably, the Caps in the Ovechkin era. They first made the playoffs in 2008, and, despite consistently having very talented rosters, did not get past the 2nd round until 2018, when they won the Stanley Cup.
- Similar situation in Colorado, where they hadn't got past the 2nd round in the Mackinnon era (which began in 2013), not breaking through until the time that I'm literally typing this. There are no calls from Avs fans to blow the team up.
- The Lightning had to go through all kinds of playoff heartbreak from 2011 to 2019 (including an embarrassing first round sweep following a 128 point season) before finally breaking through with back to back cups.
- The Penguins found all kinds of brutal ways to lose playoff series from 2010 to 2015 (including Crosby and Malkin failing to record a point in the 2013 conference final). Did they give up on their core players? No. Did they blow their team up? Heck no. They stuck with it, and were rewarded with back to back cups.
- The Blues have made the playoffs in all but one year since 2011, were about to tap out on their core in 2019, sitting dead last in the standings, before going on a magical run that culminated in a Stanley Cup championship.

There are probably more examples, but those are the ones I could think of off the top of my head. Moral of the story – don’t give up on your team, especially when it has very talented star players on it. The Flames currently have very talented star players. Granted, keeping them might prove to be a challenge right now. Keeping everyone while staying under the cap is another challenge that the team is facing. But it can be done. It’s possible. I have faith. If the team is kept together, I think they can do great things in the coming years. That’s where I stand on this. If you feel differently, I won’t blame you for it. But for me, I still feel optimistic about this team, as long as it can be kept together. Don’t forget, a lot of these guys are still young. Dube is 23. Chucky is 24. Hanifin is 25. Kylly is 25. Andersson is 25. Mang is 26. Lindy is 27. Still a pretty young team in a lot of key positions. Another year older, another year wiser, I have no doubt these guys will be better next year, and especially so in the playoffs. With Sutter behind the bench and with valuable lessons learned, there’s no telling what this team can accomplish next year and beyond. Keep the faith!
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Old 05-27-2022, 09:07 PM   #2
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They weren't tired. I don't buy that at all. Not even for Markstrom. They were defeated. McDavid got in their heads and they quickly lost their way.
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Old 05-27-2022, 09:09 PM   #3
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Read the first sentence and the last, and based on that I can confidently say I agree with whatever occurred during the 4000 words in between.
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Old 05-27-2022, 10:15 PM   #4
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I'd buy some of what you're selling.. I don't know if it was fatigue or maybe the pressure of the situation, the leaders of this team really didn't play up to their standards for large parts of the oilers series. Hopefully we get another chance at it next year!

Thanks for the write-up..
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Old 05-27-2022, 10:24 PM   #5
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I've been thinking along the same lines - I think everyone was just exhausted from playing "Sutter Hockey", and getting by Dallas was both an emotional and physical battle.

Remember that when Sutter was fired from LA, the talk was that players like Dustin Brown were pissed off about Darryl's demands - win every puck battle, get to every loose puck first, make every hit, be everywhere, see everything, win win win.

And it's like... these are people, not Wolverine. The don't regenerate the platinum skeleton overnight.


And I feel like the team just didn't have any juice left after Dallas. Grind grind grind, 60 games, 70 games, 80 games... grind more for playoff... and ... yeah, you're spent. Markstrom didn't look right against Edmonton. Coming off a tough mental battle (seeing only so many shots) against Dallas... and a big game 7 win. Yeah there's nothin left.


I don't know what the future looks like. Some nice pieces locked in, but our true "superstar" talent is zero, I'm sorry. Gaudreau and Tkachuk are nice players, but we've seen that they aren't true superstar calibre. They aren't playoff gamebreakers. In fact on that last goal of the season Gaudreau just refuses, flat out declines to check a guy. Horrible. So I get it if people think the team is dead without these guys (quite true I suppose) and yet I also don't think that there's anything left to give. This wasn't a learning experience for Gaudreau - he's no rookie here. This is him. So do we go forward with that? Why? Cuz there's no better option is why.

It's a decent team, we can expect a good season next year. That's what this was, a good season. Did they win it all? Nah. And not close, honestly. That's okay, only one team can win it all.

Thinking this team is a true cup contender will lead fans to disappointment I think. They aren't, and they showed it here, squeaking past a not great Dallas and frankly getting crushed by an also not great Oilers team.

I'm fine with it. I like the young D core and see guys like Mangiapane as the up and comers, I thought Backlund and Tanev put it all out there. You can't ask more.

Future? More of the same, for better or worse. Middling draft pick, middling success.
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Old 05-27-2022, 10:26 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bizrns View Post
I'd buy some of what you're selling.. I don't know if it was fatigue or maybe the pressure of the situation, the leaders of this team really didn't play up to their standards for large parts of the oilers series. Hopefully we get another chance at it next year!

Thanks for the write-up..
I think that playing under pressure increased the fatigue level drastically.

The point about other big teams' playoff struggles is a good one. Seems like most contenders get to that level after being good for multiple years before they can put it all together.

Just hoping that we can re-sign Johnny. I still think we need to up the talent level on our road to contending. Hopefully we get lucky and one or two prospects turns out to be elite.
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Old 05-28-2022, 07:27 AM   #7
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I think I can summarize Mathgod's post in three short statements.

1) Sutter #### the bed.

2) The Flames lost because their top guys didn't show up.

3) The future is bright regardless of what happens with Gaudreau, because of Stockton and what other teams went through.

Let me just say, I agree with statement one. Sutter #### the bed hard. His refusal to adapt and make adjustments is what killed the Flames. Some of his statements in the media were pretty stupid too. The statement about playing Colorado is a waste of eight days is not what you want to hear from your supreme leader. His statement about its okay if Edmonton's guys got four points a game was also stupid. I don't care if he was kidding, hearing those types of things from the coach is not what the team needs. Stuff like that can get into the heads of players, especially at a time when they are supposed to be focused and at the top of their games. The comments and the refusal to make obvious adjustments is a red flag. Edmonton crushed the Flames because Sutter was too stubborn to make the adjustments.

I also agree with statement two, but also feel that it wouldn't have mattered if they showed up. When you let two guys on the other team score a collective 31 points in a five game span, you're ####ed. The Oilers dictated everything about the series and the coaches did nothing to try and change the ebb and flow of the games. This is what lost the series, more so than our guys not scoring. The fact they got their heads caved in after the first game is on the coaching staff.

Not sure I agree with statement three. This team is at a crossroads. Anytime you face the potential to lose two of your top three players in back-to-back seasons it's not an indicator of a team on the rise. Gaudreau walks for nothing and this team is headed into a death spiral. The same could be said for any team that lost its best player with nothing to back fill it. Unless the plan is to let Gaudreau walk and replace him with Forsberg, the loss of the best guy on the roster is going to hurt and hurt big. There is nothing in the pipeline that can replace what Gaudreau brings to team. If Gaudreau goes, then Tkachuk is as sure as gone as well. Sign that qualifying offer then have your pick of teams and contracts. Without Gaudreau, or at least a replacement with Forsberg, this team is headed in a direction I doubt Tkachuk wants to hang around for. Unless the Flames back up a Brinks truck full of money and overpay him, what incentive is there for him?

I don't see any parallels between what happened to the Caps or Lightning or any other team. The Flames have been a middling team for years and caught lightning in a bottle this past season. Now they are facing the potential of losing key players with nothing in the minors that can replace them. That is not a good pivot. The Flames have some interesting support pieces in the minors, but are lacking the top end talent. Worse, Sutter likes to play a heavy game and the guys you hope to make the jump are all smallish players. You have to consider whether Sutter will have the confidence in these young guys to play them? The prospect ranks are really a contradiction to the type of game the coach wants to play. This is something that is going to have be resolved because Jakob Pelletier is not going to replace Milan Lucic in the lineup. Matthew Phillips is not going to replace anyone in the lineup. The style the team plays will have to change to accommodate the talent in the system. Based on this season's success, I doubt a change in style is coming very soon.

My bottom line is everything is dependent on the Gaudreau situation. He walks and the Flames have limited options to replace him. Maybe they sign Forsberg to replace him and can get by on that. But if they lose their best player for nothing the Flames head into an ugly rebuild. Hell, Gaudreau walks and you may see Sutter call it a career. I doubt he wants to finish his career with a rebuilding club, he'll likely just retire and hand the reigns over to Muller. The dominoes falling from a Gaudreau departure could be devastating to the franchise.
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Old 05-28-2022, 08:11 AM   #8
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I’m not sure it was fatigue either. I think a really big factor was losing Chris Tanev for a few games there, he played all the regular season so the team wasn’t really aware of how big a void that would leave and it changed the dynamics of the whole team.

It’s probably why they couldn’t keep leads.

Mikel Backlund was pretty good and Andrew Mangiapane scored a couple big goals but after the top line the depth needs to be better. Look at Zack Hyman and how dangerous he was the last couple games every time he had the puck, our depth players have to be better and that’s what the Flames should improve on in the off season.
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Old 05-28-2022, 08:53 AM   #9
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Didn’t read the OP but based on subsequent posts I guess the gist is to scapegoat the coach and that the players were tired. Can’t agree with either.

We’ve seen a steady stream of coaches through here and this guy has provided the structure the team needs. Once the puck drops for the most part it’s the Jimmy’s and Joe’s, not X’s and O’s.

I also saw no evidence the team was tired and IMO that sounds like a reason people had teed up for when the club would eventually lose. The team had big leads in 3 of 5 teams and then suddenly fatigue sets in? Not how I see it. The players in blue and orange played better than ours for the most part and responded to adversity much better.
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Old 05-28-2022, 09:38 AM   #10
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Appreciate the writeup. I agree with allot of it.
Will we see another year like this?
No. Covid, condensed schedule, borderline illegal, rescheduled condensed schedule etc etc.

Sure Darryl has a style he wants to see his team play. He wants pace, shot volume, hardworking commitment and he's unwilling to change because of his 2 cups , 1 almost and lots of other success .

He does need to look around though. The comments about Cooper in Tampa I 1000% agree with.....I mean they killed the Panthers. Absolutely destroyed them and I don't think I even realized how badly because I was still going through Dallas Stars ptsd.

The decorations are great winning divisions, presidents trophys etc but what's the cost come playoffs . Keeping the gas pedals jammed to thr floor for 82 games isn't sustainable....if we can we need these guys to have a break.
If we had an Olympic break, all star break....maybe It would be different?

Here's what I'll finish with. We did well with what we faced this year and it'll never happen again this way but here's the thing.

I'm not falling for keeping this team together like we've done in the past only to see it fall flat.

The one change I want to see is more callups ...more prospects getting cups of coffee with the big team and with the heat being here next year I want to see these guys get developed a little quicker by thr Flames instead of forcing vets to be the solution because our coaches and management don't think it'll work.

Let's take advantage of having our AHL team here.
All these players will now get to practice together, train together, hang out together and become a tight strong brotherhood.
There's no way you can tell me the Flames aren't going to be good next year based on the HUGE leap we made this year and that's super duper exciting to this Flames fan .....the future is bright.

Great job guys. Great job Mitch Love .
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Old 05-28-2022, 01:39 PM   #11
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I think I can summarize Mathgod's post in three short statements.

1) Sutter #### the bed.

2) The Flames lost because their top guys didn't show up.

3) The future is bright regardless of what happens with Gaudreau, because of Stockton and what other teams went through.
Well no, my comments were far more nuanced than that, and judging by the rest of your post, I'd say you misinterpreted a number of things I said.

A summary would be more along the lines of

1) Sutter badly mismanaged the workloads of his players, leading them to run out of gas in the playoffs. He also needs to provide them with different ways of playing, instead of just sticking with one style of play every night.

2) The Flames lost due to a combination of reasons; one of those reasons being their top line not showing up for the final almost 11 periods.

3) If Johnny doesn't re-sign, the next 2-3 years will be rough. Long term, though, I believe the future looks bright. If Johnny DOES re-sign, this team can do some serious damage in the coming years.


For those of you saying the team wasn't tired... I have no idea which series you were watching. The players were tired. It comes down to whether or not you choose to believe your eyes.
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Old 05-28-2022, 02:58 PM   #12
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1) Sutter badly mismanaged the workloads of his players, leading them to run out of gas in the playoffs. He also needs to provide them with different ways of playing, instead of just sticking with one style of play every night.
Sutter #### the bed. A coach's job is to motivate and make adjustments. The motivation made in the playoffs was not good, and that is polite. Worse, not a single adjustment was made. Edmonton adjusted and kicked the Flames heads in. 31 ####ing points by McDavid and Draisaitl. 31 points in five games! That type of #### gets people fired.

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2) The Flames lost due to a combination of reasons; one of those reasons being their top line not showing up for the final almost 11 periods.
Hard to show up when no adjustments are made to help you out. You're getting your asses kicked, so keep playing the same way! This is on the coaching staff. The Oilers adjusted and shut the Flames down after a nine goal route. What did the Flames do to adjust? Nothing. Roll the same four lines, play them in the same circumstances, and get their heads caved it.

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3) If Johnny doesn't re-sign, the next 2-3 years will be rough. Long term, though, I believe the future looks bright. If Johnny DOES re-sign, this team can do some serious damage in the coming years.
Don't buy the hype. It rarely works out. The fact you mentioned Matthew Phillips as a bright spot is all that needs to be said. He's a career minor leaguer, not an NHL player. When the Flames needed a body they looked well past him. Why? Because Sutter couldn't trust him to play at this level. Period. The players in the system are not top end talent. There is no replacement for Johnny Gaudreau in the mix. The prospect mix is mediocre, not likely to lead the team to the promised land. Good lord, there is no replacement for Sean Monahan in the mix let alone a Gaudreau or Tkachuk. You have to look at gaps and what is needed to be filled, and our system can't fill the gaps needed. There are some players that might be able to step in a few years, if they develop, but that just means rebuild.

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For those of you saying the team wasn't tired... I have no idea which series you were watching. The players were tired. It comes down to whether or not you choose to believe your eyes.
My eyes saw a team that was playing tentative and not making the Oilers chase them, instead of the other way around. It was not being tired, it was being afraid to make a commitment to play a way that would win. Out coached by a guy from the AHL. Not good.
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Old 05-28-2022, 03:03 PM   #13
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Losing teams fans say they got outcouched.

More at 11.
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Old 05-28-2022, 03:03 PM   #14
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My eyes saw a team that was playing tentative and not making the Oilers chase them, instead of the other way around. It was not being tired, it was being afraid to make a commitment to play a way that would win.
Or maybe they couldn't play the way they needed to because they were getting outmuscled and outskated, despite their best efforts? That's what I saw.

Phillips may not pan out, but I think you're being too quick to write off other prospects such as Pelletier, Zary, Coronoato...
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Old 05-28-2022, 03:04 PM   #15
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Sutter has got to drop the press conference act, and it has become an act. Also, maybe not overly praise the opposition/opposing players
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Old 05-29-2022, 07:18 AM   #16
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Negative:Sutter made fatal mistakes and were badly outcoached in the playoffs
Positive: he is the only coach that brought them to the playoffs

Negative: the Oilers owns Markstrom to infinity
Positive: he can beat weak teams and play well when there is no pressure

Negative: No top pairing
Positive: kick ass first line

Solution: keep Sutter for now, maybe he remembered how he won the cup.
Trade Markstrom unless you love losing to the Oilers in the playoffs
Upgrade Hanifin
Try to resign Johnny and Tkachuk. Maybe they learned something in this playoffs
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Old 05-29-2022, 07:40 AM   #17
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It's the player's job to make reads within a system. Some of those reads were pretty bad. This is not on Sutter.
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Old 05-29-2022, 07:55 AM   #18
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Trade Markstrom unless you love losing to the Oilers in the playoffs
Upgrade Hanifin
How likely is a Markstrom trade when he has a NMC and specifically chose Calgary? Sutter will want a #1 goalie and they don’t fall out of trees.

Trading for a #1 dman will be just as hard. Teams just don’t move on from them willingly.
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Old 05-29-2022, 08:46 AM   #19
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How long have you guys been waiting to take a dump on Sutter?

We have one of the best coaches in the league, and you judge him based off 5 games? It doesn’t matter he did wonders in the previous 82 + 7 games. This group has done a ton of growing under him this year. The players have shown they can play as a team, and keep growing as individuals.

I think that a lot of people are trying to over simplify the reason we lost. In my opinion we lost because we were too banged up to play a physical game throughout this series. It gave the Oiler players just a little bit extra time and space and it was all they needed. In addition, we were left with one pairing of 25 year old D to contain some of the biggest offensive threats in the league. Hanifin - Andersson made huge strides as a pair, and will continue to get better. Moreover, several of they key goals in the series by the Oilers were scored after an injury flared up on a D - The Hyman goal on the PP in game 4, and the McDavid goal after absorbing a hit from Zadorov(think that was another PP). Finally, the refs also made game 2 into a circus with the constant 4 on 4 play and the extra penalties. The refs also didn’t help matters with a couple of disallowed Flames goals, but that’s what I’ve come to expect…

I really think you shouldn’t judge a season full of hard work and fighting for each other based off of 5 games. Yes, losing to EDM sucks, frustrating, and we’ll have to hear about it all throughout next season, but I’ll take this version of the Flames over any version we’ve had since the 80’s. I enjoy this brand of hockey and believe it will remain effective in both the playoffs and regular season.

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Old 05-29-2022, 11:12 AM   #20
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I disagree, respectfully, on fatigue

Losing Tanev hurt. A lot. He is a top defender in the league, in case anyone has forgotten. Not just on the Flames. The entire league. He also reads plays well and helps markedly with the transition

Losing him made everyone a lot wrong and revealed how much he sheltered Kylington

* Also, **** Raffl.

Him returning to the lineup with a dislocated shoulder made the team look a lot better in terms of limiting 97’s success on the rush

Zadorov playing with broken ribs completely killed his physical game

You could argue the Flames didn’t have the depth on D that they needed

I really didn’t see obvious signs of fatigue, myself
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