Re-rates for review (two options) - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Jiri Hrdina · 06-15-2021, 08:21 AM

I deleted the previous thread, because I realized I made an error when uploading the ratings to remove any players NOT rated in the package. That's why both Toews and Kuhcerov were in there with high ratings.

So we have two packages to review.
The first, is the same one as last night but please use this new file due to the noted error above. I also made sure the sim settings were the same in both packages. This one uses a 50/50 between this season and last.

https://cphl.calgarypuck.com/pages/s...s_option1.xlsx

The second, I purchased last night and I don't know how it is calculated between this season and last. They don't publish that though it seems more weighted to the most recent season.

https://cphl.calgarypuck.com/pages/s...s-Option2.xlsx

So we will vote on these two options. I don't anticipate any other packages being released this season. And we will not make any changes to these packages, apart from assigning playable ratings to guys like Kucherov and Toews, with low DU, similar to previous seasons. But not tweaks to any players beyond that. Full stop.

The two ratings use different approaches, so you should not compare OVR to OVR. In addition, if we go with package 2 the grids will have to change more substantially as the scale is much different.

Jiri Hrdina · 06-15-2021, 08:23 AM

hmmm since I dropped my overall mod permissions for CP i guess I can't create polls. Until I get that back please post in the thread "1 or 2" and we'll tally that way.

agulati · 06-15-2021, 08:40 AM

The scale on the second one is such a significant departure from what we have used previously. Absolutely confusing.

I vote for the first (1) package

Jiri Hrdina · 06-15-2021, 08:43 AM

Got my polls back so please use that

Swayze11 · 06-15-2021, 08:46 AM

Option 2 is more inline with what I expected the re-rates to look like based off the 80/20 rule we have usually followed.

There are certainly some "what the heck?" ratings but like all packages there will always be those. For example Drew Doughty, Aaron Ekblad and Brent Burns being the top rated D-men was very odd but overall the F and G make way more sense. Nedeljkovic, Jack Campbell, Saros, Varlamov, Driedger are all very close to what I would have expected.

From my players stand point, I was blown away with how well Josh Manson's and Johnathan Quick's rating were in option 1 but I expected him to get destroyed in ratings, which they did in option 2.

I vote option 2.

Jiri Hrdina · 06-15-2021, 08:53 AM

Number 2 is more what I expected as well - even though I largely get obliterated. It's a big swing in some players from a smaller number of games than usual, but I think is what we thought this would be and creates some interesting league dynamics.
I'm with number 2.

SportsJunky · 06-15-2021, 09:04 AM

I'm happy with either package.

Honestly, as weird as the scale is on option #2, it is probably more "true to life" of the two choices.

simmer2 · 06-15-2021, 09:10 AM

Sorry for being that guy, but I'd vote package #1 for players and package #2 for goalies.

Package 2 has DF way too low for most forwards, and that's something package 1 actually addressed this year.
Package 2 goalies are way closer to reality from last year, albeit a bit too harsh I think in some aspects.

Jiri Hrdina · 06-15-2021, 09:16 AM

^Not an option. We can't combine packages.

TurdFerguson · 06-15-2021, 09:31 AM

Package 2 is closer to what I expected, overall. Some outliers for sure but not as many as package 1...at least at 1st glance.

I see Toews and Kucherov (maybe others) did not get ratings, so we'd need to sort that out if that is the package we go with.

I vote #2

Jiri Hrdina · 06-15-2021, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurdFerguson

Package 2 is closer to what I expected, overall. Some outliers for sure but not as many as package 1...at least at 1st glance.

I see Toews and Kucherov (maybe others) did not get ratings, so we'd need to sort that out if that is the package we go with.

I vote #2

As mentioned, they don't have ratings in either package.
I forgot to check the box to remove any players not rated in the package, so in the file uploaded last night it had their ratings from this past season.

TurdFerguson · 06-15-2021, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

As mentioned, they don't have ratings in either package.
I forgot to check the box to remove any players not rated in the package, so in the file uploaded last night it had their ratings from this past season.

Missed that. Thanks for clarifying.

simmer2 · 06-15-2021, 09:36 AM

Ok. Outside of package 2 being a bit extreme on certain ratings (DF for Fwds and goalie ratings in general), the tiers are more accurate.

I vote 2.

BagoPucks · 06-15-2021, 09:46 AM

Package 2 seems like there are some serious changes in the way it is calculating ratings DF rating especially. I am not really sure how it will affect the way the sim works. I went with Package 1.

MJK · 06-15-2021, 10:04 AM

I really don't care either way, always going to find flaws in both. Don't really want to pick one over the other.

Cheese · 06-15-2021, 10:09 AM

Package 1, utilizing a package that ties to a flawed nhl season shouldn't be the way we go. There will always be player flaws, I had a bunch last year. The first package is best.

Jiri Hrdina · 06-15-2021, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheese

Package 1, utilizing a package that ties to a flawed nhl season shouldn't be the way we go. There will always be player flaws, I had a bunch last year. The first package is best.

Well this is a confusing sentence.

Hanna Sniper · 06-15-2021, 10:16 AM

So far I'm leaning Package 2

Reasons
- Don't like the idea of the two seasons' totals. For players that had bad seasons two years ago we already paid the price for it last year. Also, players that had great seasons two years ago teams get a second year advantage of it

- Your best players this year seem to be your best players

- A rookie with 1 NHL game (Kaliyev) isn't rated way better than a "not great NHL season" of someone like Sam Steel

There seems to be less randomness in 2, not sure if the effect of the two-year over-view is the randomness I see.

I hadn't looked into the DF ratings others have spoken of though, and will dig deeper. Just my initial thoughts so far

savardandjokinen · 06-15-2021, 10:40 AM

Package 2 forwards and dmen are better rated

Package 1 goalies are better rated honestly. Plenty of no names have backup ratings and plenty of 1A/1B type goalies like korpisalo, holtby, etc have third string ratings

TheScorpion · 06-15-2021, 11:16 AM

With respect to Toews/Kucherov/etc, is the plan to give them supplemental ratings as we have done with injured players in the past?