Unpopular Opinions about Flames

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I'm surprised at how many people think Lucic deserves PP time. 16 goals in his last 161 games. I can see his role but IMO the PP is not it. Hope I'm wrong.

Successful Powerplay units have different players filling different roles. Who on the Flames is best at standing in front of the net, being impossible to move, screening shots, deflecting shots, battling big strong defensemen?

Tkachuk and Lucic and no one else even comes close. Therefore Tkachuk and Lucic occupy the net front role on our top units.

Surprised at how many people don’t seem to understand the net front role and it’s importance on the PP

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Itse

I think you're way premature on saying Czarnik, Dube, Mangiapane and Jankowski have shown enough on that list.

But let's not even debate that. Let's put Ryan on that list too.

What about James Neal?
What about Lomberg?
What about Rychel?
What about Quine?
What about Hathaway?

That's how far down the list Frolik was last season, in PPTOI/GP.

I'm not saying Frolik is the answer to making our 2nd PP dangerous.

I'm saying he was not the worst forward not named Curtis Lazar or Anthony Peluso. I'm saying he should not be in the same category with Anthony Peluso and Dalton Prout. That's ridiculous.

You’re right that Janko, Czarnik and Mangiapane haven’t shown enough. But guess what? They are are still far more offensively skilled than Frolik and therefore are better options.

You seem to be arguing that Frolik is not our worst PP option. Okay, but he’s near the bottom regardless. He should never be on the PP, he just doesn’t have the offensive skill set to be a good PP option. I don’t understand why you think he deserves PP time. He doesn’t. We have enough options better than him that he should never be considered for the PP. and that’s the way it should be.

[The Cobra]

LUcic may start he season on the PP unit, but he'll eventually be off it.

His offensive skills are just too lacking anymore.

The best PP units in the league don't employ the "slug in front of the net" approach. Now a feisty skilled guy like Tkachuk, sign me up.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

LUcic may start he season on the PP unit, but he'll eventually be off it.

His offensive skills are just too lacking anymore.

The best PP units in the league don't employ the "slug in front of the net" approach. Now a feisty skilled guy like Tkachuk, sign me up.

Mr 'slug in front of the net' had 5 seasons of 50 points or more prior to falling off a cliff in Edmonton. If it were anywhere other than Edmonton, I would be more wary of the drop-off. But being Edmonton, I am willing to keep an open mind.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Mr 'slug in front of the net' had 5 seasons of 50 points or more prior to falling off a cliff in Edmonton. If it were anywhere other than Edmonton, I would be more wary of the drop-off. But being Edmonton, I am willing to keep an open mind.

That was then, this is now.

Not that getting 50 points while playing premium minutes with first line PP time is particularly great.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Successful Powerplay units have different players filling different roles. Who on the Flames is best at standing in front of the net, being impossible to move, screening shots, deflecting shots, battling big strong defensemen?

Tkachuk and Lucic and no one else even comes close. Therefore Tkachuk and Lucic occupy the net front role on our top units.

Surprised at how many people don’t seem to understand the net front role and it’s importance on the PP

For a PP to be effective you need more than a big guy standing in front of the net, immobile, providing a screen. An effective low post player on the PP needs to have hands, anticipation, speed to get to loose pucks and the ability to do something when he gets it.

If you think Lucic can bring that, great. But the power play is more than 4 guys and a screen.

[Enoch Root]

Where did the narrative that Lucic doesn't have hands come from?

His career GPG is 0.22. By comparison, Backlund is 0.21

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Where did the narrative that Lucic doesn't have hands come from?

His career GPG is 0.22. By comparison, Backlund is 0.21

Yeah but he's been trending down for years while Backlund has been a steady 45+ point player.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yeah but he's been trending down for years while Backlund has been a steady 45+ point player.

By years, what you mean is the last season and a half, where he has been playing in Edmonton.

It is at least as likely to be utilization and GAF it is being his skills have slipped that much.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Where did the narrative that Lucic doesn't have hands come from?

His career GPG is 0.22. By comparison, Backlund is 0.21

Maybe we need a CP moratorium on use of the word narrative.

It's funny, for most players that put up points on the Oilers they're considered "empty points" because the team plays no D, playing with McDavid etc.

Then when we get a guy who couldn't put up points on the Oilers, well it's excused because they're the Oilers.

I hope I'm wrong but offensive production is about the last thing I'm expecting from Lucic at this point in his career. 10 goals would be home run IMO.

[Enoch Root]

Do you believe Rieder suddenly became a zero goal guy (after being a 10-12 goal guy for years)? Or is there a chance that there is an 'Edmonton' factor?

Lucic is not the only player whose offense disappeared in that black hole

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Where did the narrative that Lucic doesn't have hands come from?

His career GPG is 0.22. By comparison, Backlund is 0.21

I'll hazard a guess.

From watching him play.

And I'm not sure why everyone is bringing out Looch's career averages. He's not the player he was.

[Enoch Root]

Nor is he the disinterested player he was last year in Edmonton.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Nor is he the disinterested player he was last year in Edmonton.

He has scored 29 goals in his last 207 games. 78 points. That's since Jan.1, 2017.

This goes way way further back than last year.

He is what he is. An extremely expensive 4th liner who cant skate, cant score, rarely fight, but can scare the bejesus out of other teams.

[TheSquatch]

He's the only Flame Zadorov will remember for awhile.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by transplant99

He has scored 29 goals in his last 207 games. 78 points. That's since Jan.1, 2017.

This goes way way further back than last year.

He is what he is. An extremely expensive 4th liner who cant skate, cant score, rarely fight, but can scare the bejesus out of other teams.

He played 243 games with the Oilers.

In the first 118 games, he had 32 goals (a 22 goal pace)

In the last 125 games, he had 7 goals (a 4.6 goal pace)

Maybe he suddenly forgot how to hockey, and maybe something else happened. To definitively say he is what he is, is premature.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

He played 243 games with the Oilers.

In the first 118 games, he had 32 goals (a 22 goal pace)

In the last 125 games, he had 7 goals (a 4.6 goal pace)

Maybe he suddenly forgot how to hockey, and maybe something else happened. To definitively say he is what he is, is premature.

Does that not suggest it didn't have as much to do with "oiler" and more to do with being a big lummox who's abilities waned, albeit suddenly, and aren't coming back?

It's happened to guys before and seemingly more so to power forwards.

I hate that it is likely to be true, that his contract is going to be a massive albatross to this team moving forward.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Does that not suggest it didn't have as much to do with "oiler" and more to do with being a big lummox who's abilities waned, albeit suddenly, and aren't coming back?

It's happened to guys before and seemingly more so to power forwards.

I hate that it is likely to be true, that his contract is going to be a massive albatross to this team moving forward.

It is an awful quick drop-off. What I am saying is that, being that it happened in Edmonton, and being as sudden as it was, it would be rash to conclude that 'he is what he is'.

[TheSquatch]

The only response I can think of is "slotting".

Look at Neal as an oiler - top line winger, the best of the best. He couldn't manage much more than 3rd line here because we have some half decent wingers. Moves to Edmonton and he's the best there is. So he's going to look better, as it were, in Edmonton because of the slot.

Conversely, take a big lummox with moderate skill and put him in that top line winger role, he looks awful. Take that same lummox, put him in front of the net on a powerplay, keep him out sometimes while JG is getting slashed like crazy as a deterrent, maybe he can muck something up on the half boards and the skill guys, of whom the Flames have some, can do something. So you can make the most of a guy like Lucic if you have a spot for him that is a spot he can reasonably fill. Good teams aren't made of 6 identical defenseman and 12 identical forwards. It's about fit, yin and yang, roles, etc. Slotting. And Looch slots okay here. Is he gonna be amazing? Nah. But he's quite literally already done more for the Flames this year than Neal did last year. He punched Zadorov right in the mouth.

[Zoller]

I think the flames are going to miss the playoffs