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Old 04-21-2020, 05:22 PM   #1
Kipper is King
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Question Sharpening Kitchen Knives

I recently purchased a Japanese petty knife with VG-10 steel and I also have a 9.5-inch Miyabi Birchwood gyuto with SG2 powdered stainless steel.

I have wondered what I should do when my knives start getting dull. Under normal circumstances, I would take my knives into Knifewear periodically to get sharpened. That isn't an option during the pandemic.

I most commonly see people sharpening good Japanese knives using whetstones, but I'm worried I don't have the fine motor skills required to maintain a consistent angle throughout sharpening. I also wouldn't feel confident trying it based on online video tutorials alone.

As a result, I am considering a 15-degree electronic sharpener like the Chef'sChoice 15 Trizor XV EdgeSelect. (see https://www.amazon.ca/ChefsChoice-Ed.../dp/B0018RSEMU) I figure I could help my parents out with their horribly dull kitchen knives, too.

Is getting a sharpener like that a terrible idea? I know it's not optimal by any means, but what else would you suggest for someone who doesn't have confidence in using whetstones?
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Old 04-21-2020, 05:24 PM   #2
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Is getting a sharpener like that a terrible idea?
Yes.
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Old 04-21-2020, 05:27 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kipper is King View Post
I recently purchased a Japanese petty knife with VG-10 steel and I also have a 9.5-inch Miyabi Birchwood gyuto with SG2 powdered stainless steel.

I have wondered what I should do when my knives start getting dull. Under normal circumstances, I would take my knives into Knifewear periodically to get sharpened. That isn't an option during the pandemic.

I most commonly see people sharpening good Japanese knives using whetstones, but I'm worried I don't have the fine motor skills required to maintain a consistent angle throughout sharpening. I also wouldn't feel confident trying it based on online video tutorials alone.

As a result, I am considering a 15-degree electronic sharpener like the Chef'sChoice 15 Trizor XV EdgeSelect. (see https://www.amazon.ca/ChefsChoice-Ed.../dp/B0018RSEMU) I figure I could help my parents out with their horribly dull kitchen knives, too.

Is getting a sharpener like that a terrible idea? I know it's not optimal by any means, but what else would you suggest for someone who doesn't have confidence in using whetstones?
Assuming you also have knives that aren't of such quality, buy a whetstone and practice on them. It isn't that difficult, I've gotten adept at sharpening some knives to have an edge far better than what they came with, including some pretty junky knives that have been handed down multiple times.

No idea what grit you'd want for those beauties, but the act itself isn't all that hard.
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Old 04-21-2020, 05:29 PM   #4
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You can still ship knives to knifewear to be sharpened
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Old 04-21-2020, 05:32 PM   #5
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IMO, option #1:

Learn to use a whetstone. Knifewear has posted live streams of how to sharpen. I'd check them out. I took their class right before this started, and it was excellent, but the videos are a pretty good substitute. They have a trick on how to judge the angle, and eventually you'll get used to it and it'll just be muscle memory. You won't always be exactly 15 degrees. You might be 14. Might be 16. But you'll be close. That's why most knife instructions suggest always having the same person sharpen the knives.

Option #2:
Buy a blade angle guide.

It's more cumbersome. Will take longer. Your knife snob friends will laugh at you. But it'll do.

I didn't research this one - but this is the basic idea:
https://www.amazon.ca/Whetstone-Knif...s%2C214&sr=8-6

Option #3 - Knifewear is still doing mail in sharpening. If you're super uncomfortable doing it, I'd look into that. You won't have your knife for a bit, but they're still sharpening.

Option #4 - Run your knives until they're dull. Throw them out and buy new ones. That is still a better option than buying an electric sharpener.
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Old 04-21-2020, 05:34 PM   #6
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Quote:
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Is getting a sharpener like that a terrible idea?
Yes
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Old 04-21-2020, 05:37 PM   #7
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The VG10 will be easier to sharpen than the SG2. Depending on the size of the petty though, it might be tougher (I personally find anything too small or too large tougher to work with).

Borrow (or buy) a cheap western knife. Practice on that a few times.
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Old 04-21-2020, 05:56 PM   #8
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Ok, so that's a no-go on the electric sharpener!
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Old 04-21-2020, 07:04 PM   #9
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I use a belt sander


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Old 04-21-2020, 07:45 PM   #10
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SAIT Culinary has a basic knife skills class where you can bring in your knives and learn some basic cutting / sharpening skills... whenever the pandemic ends anyways.

I found it useful!
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Old 04-21-2020, 07:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
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SAIT Culinary has a basic knife skills class where you can bring in your knives and learn some basic cutting / sharpening skills... whenever the pandemic ends anyways.

I found it useful!
Ah, good to know that SAIT has a class like that. Before Covid 19, I was considering Knifewear's class, too.
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Old 04-21-2020, 08:00 PM   #12
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Definitely don’t do electric sharpener. You can go a really long time without sharpening if you’re honing. I haven’t sharpened either of my Japanese knives in over a year and they’re still in pretty good condition and should last until I can get them sharpened.

I’d also recommend if you want to do whetstone sharpening, get a cheap knife to practice with.
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Old 04-21-2020, 09:22 PM   #13
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It isn't difficult to learn how to use whetstones. My first experience using a whetstone was when I bought my first "nice" knife, a Masamoto KS Wa Gyuto (chef's knife), almost a decade ago and I've been sharpening my own knives ever since. You need to pay attention if you have a single or double bevel knife as you will sharpen them slightly differently, but there are lots of videos online that will walk you through the process. Likely there are videos for your specific knife even.

Basically you need a rough grit (arato) whetstone which is around 400-600 grit, a medium grit (nakato) stone 1000-1200 grit and finishing (shiageto) stone around 3000 grit. You would typically only be using the medium and fine grit stones for sharpening, the rough grit would be used if the knife is really dull or you've noticed that some nicks have been forming on the edge that you need to work out.

As DownhillGoat mentioned, you probably won't always be exactly 15 degrees, but I find that it will still be super sharp - at least sharp enough to pass the paper test. Over time you learn to test the edge as you sharpen and just correct if you feel that it wasn't done properly.
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Old 04-21-2020, 10:06 PM   #14
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Old 04-21-2020, 11:30 PM   #15
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Chef Morimoto's knives, daily sharpening and use:



https://twitter.com/chef_morimoto/st...14879370379264
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Old 04-21-2020, 11:36 PM   #16
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My buddy who is a head chef says he uses 400-4000 grit to sharpen his knives for daily use and he doesn't notice a huge difference after that. He has far nicer knives than me.

I personally use a 6000/1000 grit stone I got on Amazon for $30. Sharpening knives isn't really hard to do, it just takes a little bit of time to learn what the nuances are. I have lower grit, but I don't generally feel the need to use those. Just the 1000/6000 to bring the blade back up to super sharp.

https://whetstonecentral.com/whetsto...any-confusion/


First thing to learn is whether you want the Japanese style or Western style of sharpening. (Symmetrical vs single bevel)

https://www.sharpen-up.com/western-v...-style-knives/

After that:
- Start with a sharpening steel if you have it to straighten the blade.
- Gently use a lower grit to work off some material for chips or thin the metal and prep it to hold a slick edge. (can skip if knife is in good shape)
- Use a higher grit (ie: 2000-4000+) to sharpen. Use much more pressure here.
- Push away from yourself holding the knife at around 15-20 degrees (andlge of approximately a match book)

Biggest tips:
- For lubrication, I only ever use water. Higher grit stones I just splash some water, on my 1000 grit + stone I soak it in room temp water for a few minutes. Quickly rinse stone if too much material is on the stone.

- Pressure. You have to maintain decent pressure. For my stone it means I hear a sound that kinda sounds a little more like the grating of the whetstone instead of just the metal scraping on stone. This was my biggest error after my buddies showed me the proper way of doing things. This essentially meant I was pressing way too lightly and not creating a good burr which meant I didn't have a thin enough edge for a sharp blade as sharp as I wanted it.

- Passes. Totally up to you. Don't worry about taking off too much material if you're using 2000 grit plus. It's pretty darn hard to do by hand. The reason why an electric sharpener is not recommended is that it takes way too much off and uses a relatively low grit. It's taking several times more material per sharpening that if you do it yourself. You might remove a couple mm of material in a few years vs probably barely achieving that in a decade if doing it by hand. I personally do around 20-30 passes on each section of the knife, flip it over, do another 20-30 passes, then flip it over one last time to do 5-10 passes before using the steel. This is easily sharp enough to pass the paper cutting test, but you can still go sharper if you prefer. Some people suggest doing 2-5 times that for passes, but I don't know if they are using the same level of pressure. Sharpening should take a few minutes. Some people claim it takes like 10-20 minutes per knife. That's way too long IMO.

- Speed: It's better to be slow and consistent than fast and inconsistent. After around the 3rd or 4th time of a good sharpening, you'll naturally get faster.

Sharpening for the first time. Don't start with your nice knives. You can't really truly mess it up if you're following a guide, but you might scuff it. The scuffs will mostly go away with a super high grit (ie: a nail buffer), but most people want to avoid ugly cosmetics on a nice knife. The scuffs will not affect the performance of the knife. If your knife has a pattern (ie: Damascus) absolutely do not start learning on that knife. Get a cheap one to learn on. You only need one to learn on.

Using the correct technique (corrected by my buddy), I felt like I had the concept down pat after around the 3rd knife and I felt consistent around the 5th knife. I only started sharpening about two years ago give or take. I think I felt confident with my own technique (pressure, passes etc.) around the 10th knife. I sharpened knives with both Japanese and Western methods and I sharpened knives ranging from chef knives and cleavers to steak knives and small paring knives.

One thing I quickly realized is that many "crappy knives" were due to poor sharpening or sharpening with a grit too low. Many knives are quite decent when sharpened well. Heck, you can turn a butter knife into a steak knife just by sharpening it. I wouldn't suggest doing this though. Putting a sharp edge on something so unassuming is kinda asking for trouble.

I've sharpened my knives, my parents knives and my in-laws knives. I find it kinda relaxing and they're happy to have nice sharp knives to use. I even "revived" some of their underutilized knives which were just knives that were dull/poorly sharpened with a very low grit stone.

Last edited by DoubleF; 04-21-2020 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 04-21-2020, 11:40 PM   #17
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I use a diamond steel. They work great. Just a couple passes every 10 uses or so on a good knife and they are back to lethal.
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Old 04-22-2020, 12:00 AM   #18
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I use a diamond steel. They work great. Just a couple passes every 10 uses or so on a good knife and they are back to lethal.
Isn't that just for honing the blade?
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Old 04-22-2020, 12:44 AM   #19
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Isn't that just for honing the blade?
Some of those steel rods that come with knife blocks do remove material, so it does hone as well as slightly sharpen the knife.

That being said, most average people only need a bit of honing and the simplest of sharpening to maintain a good edge on a knife so those steel rods work well enough. If you're doing crazy stuff to chip and bend the blade, you might want to reconsider what blades you use for your job. I generally use my nice blades for slicing. Hacking through bone and whatnot which can chip bend the blade, that's the job of a $20-40 Chinese cleaver.
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Old 04-22-2020, 01:20 AM   #20
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Isn't that just for honing the blade?
Basically I use it to hone, but if you are more aggressive and use multiple passes you can sharpen a truly dull blade.

This is a similar one to what I use. It is a steel embedded with diamond.

https://www.kitchensmart.ca/products...SABEgIOLfD_BwE
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