CWHL welcoming a trangender player

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Guys, we still have the charter. Calm the hell down. Free Speech is still very much alive.

I agree, but you can't really count on the Charter to protect freedom of expression consistently. I mean, even in the case of sections 318 and 319 of the Criminal Code (the hate speech laws that were discussed a couple pages ago), those clearly violate the Charter's freedom of expression provisions, and the Supreme Court held as much. They were simply saved by Section 1.

I think a lot of people are confused about this - the Supreme Court routinely (well, not routinely, but more than you'd think) takes a law that's challenged for violating freedom of expression rights, finds that it does violate freedom of expression rights, and then nonetheless upholds the law. In some of those cases, almost no one in their right mind would object to that - for example, child pornography as a form of expression was held to be protected by the Charter, but its prohibition was upheld nonetheless. In other cases, there's plenty of room for debate.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by SebC

It is in mine. Is it not in yours? If so, why not? Are we simply to trust that the law will not be interpreted as it is written?

Granting a measure of discretion to courts and administrative tribunals is a fundamental aspect of our entire legal and governmental system. So if this is a serious problem, it’s back to the drawing board I’m afraid.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Not really, no it doesn't.
There are years and years of precedent for how this law has been applied.
Pretty sure the type of interaction we are talking about here, is completely irrelevant given the years of experience with the existing laws.

If you refuse to use a pronoun and go in front of a tribunal, and still refuse then you can be in contempt of court and go to jail. Is that not correct?

[Makarov]

^ just to add: I’m being a little unfair: it’s legitimate to debate how much discretion should be granted in particular circumstances. I just haven’t seen any compelling argument that either the Criminal Code or the various Human Rights Codes grant too much.

BTW I deal with the HRTO regularly and they often drive me crazy (would always much rather be in front of a labour arbitrator). So I resent the fact that this thread has compelled me to weigh in in its defence. Boo.

[Insane_Flame]

Originally Posted by zamler

If you refuse to use a pronoun and go in front of a tribunal, and still refuse then you can be in contempt of court and go to jail. Is that not correct?

Or even if you are fined or something like that, what would happen if you refuse to pay the fine?

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by zamler

If you refuse to use a pronoun and go in front of a tribunal, and still refuse then you can be in contempt of court and go to jail. Is that not correct?

Yes. Of course, I am not aware, in the entire history of human rights tribunals in Canada, any one ever being sentenced to custody for even one day for contempt of an order. I’ve never even heard of anyone initiating contempt proceedings (though I suspect that at least has happened). Also, you could be sentenced to five years of custody for a non-consensual slap on the back. So be careful out there.

[zamler]

The problem here is you are being compelled to speak in a certain way, if you don't you are threatened with fines or jail time. For example if you don't agree that a certain person is a zeebee and just simply think they are a girl, that is against the law. You are compelled to speak about a theory of gender in a way you don't agree with.

To me this directly goes against freedom of expression and freedom of speech. To those that say, well don't worry the law will never be applied in a bad way. I say bull#### welcome to the slippery slope.

Originally Posted by Insane_Flame

Or even if you are fined or something like that, what would happen if you refuse to pay the fine?

It will be like failing to pay any other fine you'll eventually end up in jail.

[CF84]

Originally Posted by the2bears

Yet they'd likely sell to just about any other "sinner". Sell a cake to an adulterer? A murderer? Probably. I would respect them if they were consistent, but I suspect hypocrisy is more likely.

This made me laugh haha! I would just like to point out that they would probably not bake a "murder cake" or a cake for a man and his mistress mmmmm...murder cake

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by the2bears

Yet they'd likely sell to just about any other "sinner". Sell a cake to an adulterer? A murderer? Probably. I would respect them if they were consistent, but I suspect hypocrisy is more likely.

Would they really bake a cake celebrating a murder though? That's the real comparison here.

[dino7c]

Lol what is going on here!

A one off in a team sport in a league that nobody cares about is a good story... basically if the transgender person isn't all that good everyone is happy (maybe not the last women to be cut by the team). Should a transgender person absolutely dominate I think we see strong pushback.

I don't think anyone is "up in arms" it's a discussion, that is what a message board is for. Some people seem to think CP is a place for people to pat each other on the back about how progressive they are...sorry

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Would they really bake a cake celebrating a murder though? That's the real comparison here.

Why would anyone order a cake celebrating an abortion?

[sempuki]

Originally Posted by Insane_Flame

The sick part comes in when people are recommending hormone therapy to 5 year olds. The sick part comes in when I can have my child taken away unless I foster what the government deems a "safe" environment for my child if he decides he wants to wear a dress one day. Sick is having people getting criminally charged for not agreeing with a pseudo science.

Nothing you just said was true.

[Matata]

My preferred pronoun is "his royal majesty, Matata the great and powerful". Address me as anything else and I'll see you in court.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Matata

My preferred pronoun is "his royal majesty, Matata the great and powerful". Address me as anything else and I'll see you in court.

I been barking up that tree for years. My wife still rolls her eyes when I refer to myself as "we" and "us".

To me it makes perfect sense. If my daughter is my princess, that quite clearly makes me King of the household and we should be addressed accordingly.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Matata

My preferred pronoun is "his royal majesty, Matata the great and powerful". Address me as anything else and I'll see you in court.

Cecil of the House Terwilliger, the First of His Name, The Unburnt, King of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, King of Meereen, Khal of the Great Grass Sea, Protector of the Realm, Lord Regnant of the Seven Kingdoms, Breaker of Chains and Father of Dragons.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Because its application in the case of transgender people is different from the way it applies in the case of other disadvantaged groups, as explained thoroughly in the post that I linked to on the last page, which you apparently neglected to read in your haste to reaffirm your pre-existing and only partially informed opinion.

I'm a litigation lawyer with who's read the legislation we're talking about. Given that, I'm confident I have a much better idea of what I'm talking about than many (including you) on this topic.

Fair, enough, and I did remove the second part of my post when I realized who I was replying to, you must've been replying when I did remove it, my apologies.

As a Lawyer you obviously know more about this than as a layman my understanding is that there isn't anything in here that will substantially affect anyone who isn't actively discriminating against transgender people, which it seems you are firming in most of your posts.

And no, I didn't read the link, but again, your response seemed to be along the lines of "probably nothing to worry about" so I didn't dig too deep, but I'll give it a gander.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Cecil of the House Terwilliger, the First of His Name, The Unburnt, King of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, King of Meereen, Khal of the Great Grass Sea, Protector of the Realm, Lord Regnant of the Seven Kingdoms, Breaker of Chains and Father of Dragons.

I refuse to believe you did half of that ####

[Red_Baron]

So does this mean that I can choose "Captain" next time I fill out my custom form when returning to Canada as it will be my preferred pronoun?

And yes, I am too lazy/don't give enough of a ____ to look it up myself.

seriously, a friend of mine did this and ended up getting pulled in for questioning and they detained him for over 3 hours for being a smart ___

[dustygoon]

Trying to skim this thread to get the gist....I picked up on a new word "transphobe", saw debate about cake at abortions, and the terms "midget boys" and a "dick move" thrown about.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

Trying to skim this thread to get the gist....I picked up on a new word "transphobe", saw debate about cake at abortions, and the terms "midget boys" and a "dick move" thrown about.

Classic CP