Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 07-12-2020, 06:58 PM   #21
Reggie28
Scoring Winger
 
Reggie28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by getbak View Post
Regardless of what the cap is, the players are still guaranteed 50% of HRR. If they get overpaid,
----------

Also, the limitation of the increase to the cap is only in place until the owners are made good through the escrow payback plan. Once the escrow balance is zero, the cap can start to increase by larger amounts again.
This is what I thought I read as well, that cap increases are limited to 1m/year if the players are behind in the escrow account. Basing the cap on the amount of escrow and having a hard limit on the amount of escrow is a great way of alleviating the players concern of an unknown escrow percentage and the commitment to a 50-50 split of HRR.
Reggie28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2020, 07:07 PM   #22
Reggie28
Scoring Winger
 
Reggie28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Exp:
Default

^ This is all assuming HRR eventually increases over the 4.8 billion. If it doesn’t, are the owners on the hook for the overpayments to the players?
Reggie28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2020, 07:12 PM   #23
GGG
Franchise Player
 
GGG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reggie28 View Post
^ This is all assuming HRR eventually increases over the 4.8 billion. If it doesn’t, are the owners on the hook for the overpayments to the players?
I think so. I believe if they are more than $x behind it triggers the CBA extending by one more year but after that the owners are on the hook.

So the players limited short term downside of massive escrow repayments
They ensured they get 50% of HRR if revenues go up
They get more than 50% of HRR if revenues go down significantly.

So the players a a group won big. When you become a UFA might change how you feel as an individual.
GGG is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to GGG For This Useful Post:
Old 07-12-2020, 07:18 PM   #24
FlamesAddiction
Franchise Player
 
FlamesAddiction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
Exp:
Default

With the current economic climate and uncertainty in the near future, I think the players were smart enough to know that they couldn't push back too hard.

If things were to get worse over the next year and with no CBA agreed on for 2022, the NHL would have had every incentive to shut down for a season. The players really didn't have much leverage and by agreeing to this early, it helps build goodwill for the future.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
FlamesAddiction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2020, 07:25 PM   #25
Enoch Root
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: May 2012
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reggie28 View Post
^ This is all assuming HRR eventually increases over the 4.8 billion. If it doesn’t, are the owners on the hook for the overpayments to the players?
Teams also have the option of not spending to the cap if revenues remain low. And some definitely would could spending.

Remember, 50% of HRR is set to the midpoint, not the cap. So teams have wiggle room there.
Enoch Root is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2020, 07:55 PM   #26
Reggie28
Scoring Winger
 
Reggie28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG View Post
I think so. I believe if they are more than $x behind it triggers the CBA extending by one more year but after that the owners are on the hook.

So the players limited short term downside of massive escrow repayments
They ensured they get 50% of HRR if revenues go up
They get more than 50% of HRR if revenues go down significantly.

So the players a a group won big. When you become a UFA might change how you feel as an individual.
Depends really. Without this cap certainly, you wouldn’t want to be a UFA next year with a 70m cap. The cap is false until revenues return. Is that going to be one year, two years? three years? I don’t know. But you are right, future contracts are going to carry the debt of current contracts until they are paid in full.
Reggie28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2020, 09:06 PM   #27
powderjunkie
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Root View Post
Teams also have the option of not spending to the cap if revenues remain low. And some definitely would could spending.

Remember, 50% of HRR is set to the midpoint, not the cap. So teams have wiggle room there.
True, but in an environment where nearly everyone is spending close to the cap, the incremental costs associated with spending above the midpoint are less. Although if you spent to the floor in this scenario, your actual payroll would also be less than cap value, your competitive disadvantage is greater.

Again, if an owner is concerned about real dollars, they should focus more on acquiring players whose AAV's exceed their real salaries before worrying about their actual cap number (obviously doing both would save the most money).
powderjunkie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2020, 10:26 AM   #28
Locke
Franchise Player
 
Locke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by transplant99 View Post
Larry is a lifelong Bettman detractor and union shill. So this shouldnt come as a surprise, but he hates everything to do with the new deal.

He is the only one i have read or heard who is taking this stance.




https://nypost.com/2020/07/11/nhlpa-...th-latest-cba/
Wait, wait wait.....let me understand this...

So the people who are currently in the Union negotiated a contract that is advantageous for them but will screw over players who enter the league in the future?

So they prioritized their current members at the expense of future members?

No way! I dont believe it! No Union would do that!
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!

This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.

If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a Fire Exit. - Mitch Hedberg
Locke is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Locke For This Useful Post:
Old 07-13-2020, 11:25 AM   #29
Monahammer
Franchise Player
 
Monahammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Alberta
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke View Post
Wait, wait wait.....let me understand this...

So the people who are currently in the Union negotiated a contract that is advantageous for them but will screw over players who enter the league in the future?

So they prioritized their current members at the expense of future members?

No way! I dont believe it! No Union would do that!
You say this, but it's definitely the hallmark of rather weak union leadership (from the organizational side) to not protect the future of the union.

So yeah, it happens, but not in the context of a stronger union that is actually interested in it's own long term preservation.
Monahammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2020, 11:32 AM   #30
Locke
Franchise Player
 
Locke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monahammer View Post
You say this, but it's definitely the hallmark of rather weak union leadership (from the organizational side) to not protect the future of the union.

So yeah, it happens, but not in the context of a stronger union that is actually interested in it's own long term preservation.
Heres the thing though....They Dont Care.

A Sports Union is a largely different animal.

- They have short careers in which to get as much as they can
- All Union Members are not equal; Big dollar guys are more important

By the time these consequences come home to roost Fehr and most of the other big ticket players will either have taken what they wanted and left the mess for whoever is next.

The Big Contract players will still be the most important and get their big contracts and as long as the PA still advocates for an ever-increasing ELC they'll keep the new kids relatively happy.

This is a pretty standard FYGM.
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!

This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.

If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a Fire Exit. - Mitch Hedberg
Locke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2020, 01:07 PM   #31
Jordan!
Jordan!
 
Jordan!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ
Exp:
Default

This industry as a whole is on thin ice at the moment.
Jordan! is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Jordan! For This Useful Post:
Old 07-14-2020, 07:36 PM   #32
cam_wmh
Franchise Player
 
cam_wmh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Exp:
Default

He did make an interesting point, about publicizing injuries, and specifically concussions.

Makes me think, that CTE & concussions have been, but all but buried by both the PA and league.
cam_wmh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2020, 10:45 PM   #33
Mr.Coffee
damn onions
 
Mr.Coffee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan! View Post
This industry as a whole is on thin ice at the moment.
I think this is right and I think people in pro sports better buckle up because the gravy train is about to end. I suspect the next 10 years are going to be pretty wild for pro sports. It won’t be a total disaster but I predict much less money via gate driven revenue sports / leagues.
Mr.Coffee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2020, 11:34 PM   #34
FlamesAddiction
Franchise Player
 
FlamesAddiction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee View Post
I think this is right and I think people in pro sports better buckle up because the gravy train is about to end. I suspect the next 10 years are going to be pretty wild for pro sports. It won’t be a total disaster but I predict much less money via gate driven revenue sports / leagues.
Yup.

I said it in another thread, but it's the way the world is going and professional sports is bound to catch up. This COVID thing might be a huge catalyst, especially if people become accustomed to physical distancing.

People, especially the younger generation, prefer to have things come to them. Movie theaters, bars, restaurants, dating, and brick and mortar stores were all slowly going away before all this happened. If there is a whole season next year without packed stadiums, I can see gate driven sports declining too. I am not 100% convinced, but it is something I think could happen. It might not be overnight, but I can see declining attendance for sure.

Even after COVID goes away, I think there will be lingering physical distancing for a lot of people, especially around cold and flu season. Kids are going to be raised with these habits as well
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
FlamesAddiction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2020, 11:43 PM   #35
dino7c
Franchise Player
 
dino7c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Exp:
Default

What leverage do the players have when the owners can't even sell tickets?
__________________
GFG
dino7c is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to dino7c For This Useful Post:
14
Old 07-15-2020, 08:05 AM   #36
calgarygeologist
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction View Post
Yup.

I said it in another thread, but it's the way the world is going and professional sports is bound to catch up. This COVID thing might be a huge catalyst, especially if people become accustomed to physical distancing.

People, especially the younger generation, prefer to have things come to them. Movie theaters, bars, restaurants, dating, and brick and mortar stores were all slowly going away before all this happened. If there is a whole season next year without packed stadiums, I can see gate driven sports declining too. I am not 100% convinced, but it is something I think could happen. It might not be overnight, but I can see declining attendance for sure.

Even after COVID goes away, I think there will be lingering physical distancing for a lot of people, especially around cold and flu season. Kids are going to be raised with these habits as well
I think that if attendance and revenue going forward doesn't return the NHL and owners might have to start looking into alternative broadcasting models like PPV to make up some of the gap. I don't think it would work well but what other options do they have?
calgarygeologist is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 08:16 AM   #37
Monahammer
Franchise Player
 
Monahammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Alberta
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarygeologist View Post
I think that if attendance and revenue going forward doesn't return the NHL and owners might have to start looking into alternative broadcasting models like PPV to make up some of the gap. I don't think it would work well but what other options do they have?
PPV would suck and be the end of my watching all but the most important games. Really I think all that does is offset some costs on to smaller venues that would hope to attract crowds to watch the games- these are also going to suffer the consequences of Covid.

Maybe the entire model has to change. What if the games all took place in much smaller arenas that were set up specifically for televising broadcasts- the players could have more technology integrated too... VR style camera gear integrated into their equipment to allow for special paid experiential opportunities, etc. I could see this leading to a sporting revolution, or a step towards some sort of combo e-gaming/sporting type of entertainment.

Imagine you could pay to see the game from Johnny's point of view for a game? That might interesting.
Monahammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 08:24 AM   #38
MrMike
Franchise Player
 
MrMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Van Island
Exp:
Default

^ I just want to pay extra for no announcers/broadcasters/colour. Mic the ice more and i'll gladly pay an extra 5 bucks more a month for my center ice package.
MrMike is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to MrMike For This Useful Post:
Old 07-15-2020, 08:34 AM   #39
Flamenspiel
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Exp:
Default

I don’t know about PPV, i followed the EPL religiously for years and can’t be bothered to pay extra for DAZN.

For the price of DAZN I was able to get Amazon and 1 or two other services.
Flamenspiel is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Flamenspiel For This Useful Post:
Old 07-15-2020, 08:51 AM   #40
Strange Brew
Franchise Player
 
Strange Brew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Exp:
Default

I'm 100% fine with a PPV model, but that's what i am used to with Center Ice. I can see prices on that creeping up. A little different with the Canadian model and that's where the big money is coming from. And then you get into the whole bundling of programming thing which is controversial in itself. That used to piss me off but with the proliferation of streaming providers, my appreciation for bundling is growing.
Strange Brew is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:22 AM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021