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Old 03-13-2019, 12:36 PM   #1
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So I read a great opinion piece this morning on Reddit about the decline of Infiniti. It's a great post if you want to check it out.

The TL;DR is basically Infiniti as a brand has slipped from being very respectable in the mid-aughts to totally underwhelming today. Worse cars than Lexus, BMW and Mercedes for the same or more money. There's no reason why anyone would or should buy one, which is crazy because 10-15 years ago they were pretty reasonable.

Nissan is the same (obviously). Like, a guy posted on Reddit a day or two ago about a 2018 370Z he bought, and all the posts in reply had a vibe like people felt bad for him. I actually did/do feel bad for him. Like, there are so many cars so far superior to that (Mustang is an obvious one) that I don't understand why he would buy it. I do like the exterior styling of 370Zs, but when the power, handling, economy, maintenance, technology, infotainment, etc. is a decade old, I don't get how they could sell a single one.

And Nissan has got to stop with the orange interior/gauge lighting. It is hideous and so outdated. Their infotainment is a joke in an era where infotainment systems sell cars. How can they not fix that?

Some motoring purists say infotainment systems don't matter, but I disagree. As a car guy, I'm primarily interested in how a car drives, but when every other manufacturer is offering a nice infotainment package at a $0 premium over Nissan, their lack of anything remotely resembling tech from this century becomes a major downside.

IDK, but I just don't see how Nissan is in business or how they sell vehicles. Anyone a fan?

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Old 03-13-2019, 12:45 PM   #2
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Infiniti is quite disappointing. The key fob for their vehicles has been literally unchanged for 15 years. They still use double stacked infotainment displays, with one of them being unchanged since 2007.

It's unfortunate as well because I think the exterior design of a lot of their vehicles are quite attractive. I just don't think Nissan cares.

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Old 03-13-2019, 12:48 PM   #3
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I've always disliked Nissan/Infiniti. My uncles had Nissan pathfinders back in the day and it always had transmission problems. The styling of all their vehicles is the worst.

The ugliest by far is the Infiniti QX80. It looks like it's styled after Shamu:

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Old 03-13-2019, 12:48 PM   #4
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I have a 2009 Maxima and absolutely love it, Performance: A+, Style: A+, Tech I'd frankly give an A aswell, I don't see how anyone could want more than what they provide already. But I don't have kids or anything
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Old 03-13-2019, 12:50 PM   #5
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I have a 2009 Maxima and absolutely love it, Performance: A+, Style: A+, Tech I'd frankly give an A aswell, I don't see how anyone could want more than what they provide already. But I don't have kids or anything
How can the tech be an A in a 10-year-old anything? You're not giving it an A based on 2019 standards, are you? Wouldn't surprise me if you still had a tape deck in that thing as Nissan was including those waaaaay beyond their best before lol.
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Old 03-13-2019, 12:53 PM   #6
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The middle has hollowed out in our society. And we've seen brands do the same to meet changing tastes. Either people want dollar stores and Walmarts or Nordstrom and Tiffany. McDonald's or Caesers. CRVs or Q5s. Ikea or c&b.

In the car world, the biggest move to me was VW going down market. They saw the middle hollowing out and cut the quality/costs out of their Jettas and golfs to become an economy company .

I'm sure part of the story is that Nissan just kept trying to stay in the middle while competitors either focused on cost or luxury. In a lot of ways their the only company in that space. But does anyone care about that space?
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Old 03-13-2019, 12:56 PM   #7
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How can the tech be an A in a 10-year-old anything? You're not giving it an A based on 2019 standards, are you? Wouldn't surprise me if you still had a tape deck in that thing as Nissan was including those waaaaay beyond their best before lol.
Uh, it has a monster sound system, bluetooth, GPS, paddle shifters, a HDD and an SD slot, heated steering wheel/seats, backup camera, programmable side mirrors/seats etc etc. What else do you expect exactly?

To clarify: The sound system is a Bose, I just mean it's freaking awesome

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Old 03-13-2019, 01:00 PM   #8
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The middle has hollowed out in our society. And we've seen brands do the same to meet changing tastes. Either people want dollar stores and Walmarts or Nordstrom and Tiffany. McDonald's or Caesers. CRVs or Q5s. Ikea or c&b.

In the car world, the biggest move to me was VW going down market. They saw the middle hollowing out and cut the quality/costs out of their Jettas and golfs to become an economy company .

I'm sure part of the story is that Nissan just kept trying to stay in the middle while competitors either focused on cost or luxury. In a lot of ways their the only company in that space. But does anyone care about that space?
That's a neat take. What complicates things for Nissan, though, is the down-market brands like Hyundai are now very nice. And I'd take a Genesis way before I'd buy anything from Infiniti. Nissan may have been trying to stay in the middle, but part of the problem is the bottom rose past them. They have inadvertently put themselves at the absolute ass end of the auto industry, but aren't priced accordingly.

I actually like the direction VW has gone. Audi is their take on upmarket. VW doesn't need to be so close to that standard and their new lower pricing (commiserate with what are now lower end vehicles) offers great value for reasonably good German cars.
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:04 PM   #9
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I rent cars often and a lot of them are Nissans. Almost always they are underpowered, basic interiors (very cheap looking) and not great on fuel when compared to other names. Since Infiniti is owned by Nissan I would expect the same

One of my neighbors has an Infiniti and is always complaining about mechanical issues (it's a 2012 model)
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:05 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Sliver View Post
So I read a great opinion piece this morning on Reddit about the decline of Infiniti. It's a great post if you want to check it out.

The TL;DR is basically Infiniti as a brand has slipped from being very respectable in the mid-aughts to totally underwhelming today. Worse cars than Lexus, BMW and Mercedes for the same or more money. There's no reason why anyone would or should buy one, which is crazy because 10-15 years ago they were pretty reasonable.

Nissan is the same (obviously). Like, a guy posted on Reddit a day or two ago about a 2018 370Z he bought, and all the posts in reply had a vibe like people felt bad for him. I actually did/do feel bad for him. Like, there are so many cars so far superior to that (Mustang is an obvious one) that I don't understand why he would buy it. I do like the exterior styling of 370Zs, but when the power, handling, economy, maintenance, technology, infotainment, etc. is a decade old, I don't get how they could sell a single one.

And Nissan has got to stop with the orange interior/gauge lighting. It is hideous and so outdated. Their infotainment is a joke in an era where infotainment systems sell cars. How can they not fix that?

Some motoring purists say infotainment systems don't matter, but I disagree. As a car guy, I'm primarily interested in how a car drives, but when every other manufacturer is offering a nice infotainment package at a $0 premium over Nissan, their lack of anything remotely resembling tech from this century becomes a major downside.

IDK, but I just don't see how Nissan is in business or how they sell vehicles. Anyone a fan?
Largest Japanese car seller in China and worlds largest sales of Electric cars, I'm guessing that's how
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:08 PM   #11
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Infiniti is quite disappointing. The key fob for their vehicles has been literally unchanged for 15 years. They still use double stacked infotainment displays, with one of them being unchanged since 2007.

It's unfortunate as well because I think the exterior design of a lot of their vehicles are quite attractive. I just don't think Nissan cares.

I saw one of these in the flesh the other day and really like it, a good looking vehicle, IMO.

I had a 2003 Maxima SE, 6 speed. That car was great fun to drive and tonnes of power.

I haven't owned a Nissan in years. If the brand is in decline that is too bad.

I still think this is a beautiful vehicle:

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Old 03-13-2019, 01:10 PM   #12
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I rent cars often and a lot of them are Nissans. Almost always they are underpowered, basic interiors (very cheap looking) and not great on fuel when compared to other names. Since Infiniti is owned by Nissan I would expect the same

One of my neighbors has an Infiniti and is always complaining about mechanical issues (it's a 2012 model)
I'm kind of surprised to hear this take frankly, I've never touched a Nissan outside of my Maxima though. Are the rest of the models just pure trash?
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:10 PM   #13
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Uh, it has a monster sound system, bluetooth, GPS, paddle shifters, a HDD and an SD slot, heated steering wheel/seats, backup camera, programmable side mirrors/seats etc etc. What else do you expect exactly?
Yes, those are great features for 2009.

On a brands flagship sedan now, though, you would expect Android Auto and Apple Car Play at a bare minimum. Active safety/autonomous driving features (automatic stop, radar cruise, lane-keep assist, automatic parking, etc.). Head-up display, panoramic cameras, blind spot warning, remote start, keyless start, LED lights, premium interior materials without hard plastics, power open/close trunk, cooled seats, touchscreens, digital configurable gauges, voice controls, USB inputs, and the list goes on. I seriously pulled those off the top of my head. Maybe an engine that wasn't a gas guzzler (hybrid or turbo 4)?

You can't give an '09 Maxima an A for tech. And and A+ for performance makes no sense, either, BTW. Not crapping on your car, but your rating system leaves no room for anything built in the last decade by any other manufacturer. Compare an '09 Maxima against a '19 Genesis made by Hyundai, for example, and the Maxima would get Ds or Fs in every category. And that's not even taking into account BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc., which are all better than a decade old Nissan, too.
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:14 PM   #14
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Yes, those are great features for 2009.

On a brands flagship sedan now, though, you would expect Android Auto and Apple Car Play at a bare minimum. Active safety/autonomous driving features (automatic stop, radar cruise, lane-keep assist, automatic parking, etc.). Head-up display, panoramic cameras, blind spot warning, remote start, keyless start, LED lights, premium interior materials without hard plastics, power open/close trunk, cooled seats, touchscreens, digital configurable gauges, voice controls, USB inputs, and the list goes on. I seriously pulled those off the top of my head. Maybe an engine that wasn't a gas guzzler (hybrid or turbo 4)?

You can't give an '09 Maxima an A for tech. And and A+ for performance makes no sense, either, BTW. Not crapping on your car, but your rating system leaves no room for anything built in the last decade by any other manufacturer. Compare an '09 Maxima against a '19 Genesis made by Hyundai, for example, and the Maxima would get Ds or Fs in every category. And that's not even taking into account BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc., which are all better than a decade old Nissan, too.
Agreed, but also, from my personal experience, many of the German luxury brands are behind when it comes to standard equipment offered by domestic or Japanese brands.

For example, features like heated steering wheel, ventilated seats, back up cameras, etc are almost always standard on a domestic/japanese car, but will cost quite a bit extra on a German luxury brand. You would expect the opposite.
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:15 PM   #15
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I'm sure part of the story is that Nissan just kept trying to stay in the middle while competitors either focused on cost or luxury. In a lot of ways their the only company in that space. But does anyone care about that space?

Mazda apparently does. I rode in a new 2019 Mazda 3 and was blown away by how good the interior was. You can get one fully loaded for under 30k with AWD, which is probably going to be what my next car purchase is




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Old 03-13-2019, 01:18 PM   #16
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Mazda apparently does. I rode in a new 2019 Mazda 3 and was blown away by how good the interior was. You can get one fully loaded for under 30k with AWD, which is probably going to be what my next car purchase is




Does Mazada still have rusting issues?
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:18 PM   #17
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Agreed, but also, from my personal experience, many of the German luxury brands are behind when it comes to standard equipment offered by domestic or Japanese brands.

For example, features like heated steering wheel, ventilated seats, back up cameras, etc are almost always standard on a domestic/japanese car, but will cost quite a bit extra on a German luxury brand. You would expect the opposite.
Mercedes' new interiors are super futuristic and Toyota has been brutal about adding Android Auto, but you could easily find examples that support what you're saying so definitely a fair point.

Check out where Mercedes is going (this is their entry level car):
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:21 PM   #18
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Yes, those are great features for 2009.

On a brands flagship sedan now, though, you would expect Android Auto and Apple Car Play at a bare minimum. Active safety/autonomous driving features (automatic stop, radar cruise, lane-keep assist, automatic parking, etc.). Head-up display, panoramic cameras, blind spot warning, remote start, keyless start, LED lights, premium interior materials without hard plastics, power open/close trunk, cooled seats, touchscreens, digital configurable gauges, voice controls, USB inputs, and the list goes on. I seriously pulled those off the top of my head. Maybe an engine that wasn't a gas guzzler (hybrid or turbo 4)?

You can't give an '09 Maxima an A for tech. And and A+ for performance makes no sense, either, BTW. Not crapping on your car, but your rating system leaves no room for anything built in the last decade by any other manufacturer. Compare an '09 Maxima against a '19 Genesis made by Hyundai, for example, and the Maxima would get Ds or Fs in every category. And that's not even taking into account BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc., which are all better than a decade old Nissan, too.
Not for nothing, but I can give it whatever grade I feel like giving it for my purposes. I'm an owner giving my feedback on the brand like you asked. I clearly don't care as much about fluff that *Shouldn't* effect my driving as you do, and I did give consideration to it's age. Their new Maxima's have all of that afaik. And mine does have quite a bit of the things you mentioned (very nice leather/soft plastic interior, LED Lights, USB ports). I get upwards of 700km to my tank, 7-8.5L/100km highway isn't what I'd call a gas guzzler. I destroy basically all of my friends in terms of speed/handling, the thing is a sports sedan after all, bare in mind I'm not a millionaire here, I'm a middle income guy in his mid 20s who's extremely happy with his 6500 dollar used vehicle who's kind of surprised to see someone think the brand is such a pile of dirt considering how many genuinely meh models from other brands I've driven/taken rides in.
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:22 PM   #19
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Until any one of these companies makes a new El Camino style vehicle I won’t buy their products. The greatest vehicle design in history? Probably.

All wheel drive too. Basically everyone should make a Baja.
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:23 PM   #20
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Does Mazada still have rusting issues?

I have a 2008 3 and don't have any rust issues. The only problem I've had with this car (which just happened when I hit 180k) is a bad Transmission Control Module, which causes the AT dash light to come on and the car won't shift past 3rd gear. A $700 replacement part is a bit tough to swallow, but assuming I get past 200k KM with that as my only major repair expense then I don't think that's too bad
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