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Old 03-14-2019, 03:10 PM   #141
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MPs vote to delay Brexit, no news on if a second referendum happens yet or not.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:23 PM   #142
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https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47576813

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MPs vote by a majority of 211 to seek delay to EU departure
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MPs earlier rejected an attempt to secure another Brexit referendum by 334 votes to 85.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:28 PM   #143
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MPs vote to delay Brexit, no news on if a second referendum happens yet or not.
It's not up to them if I understand correctly. The EU can decide to grant an extension or not, they are the ones who will decide.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:46 PM   #144
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MPs earlier rejected an attempt to secure another Brexit referendum by 334 votes to 85.
I find that incredibly baffling. They have left themselves with no choice BUT to have another referendum. I'd love to hear what the plan any of these MP's has is, because they seem to reject common sense at every turn.
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:08 PM   #145
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Yeah the EU isn't going to extend the deadline unless there is another referendum right? It seems like the leaders in Britain still don't understand what they have gotten themselves into.

Also, if they do have a 2nd referendum how do they even decide what the questions are? Is it no deal vs no Brexit? May's deal vs no Brexit? No deal vs May's deal vs no Brexit? What happens in the last case if stay wins with less than 50% of the vote? Once again, what a mess!
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:19 PM   #146
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THe majority of Labour MPs did not vote at all for a second referendum... 201 of them.
Labour needs a lot more conservative defectors to vote for another referendum and it looks like they are still trying to round up the votes? Another 30 or so would MPs going for a second referendum would do it.

It looks like it's Corbyn's strategy to make the process as painful and deadlocked as possible before offering up the second referendum as a way to break the deadlock.

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Old 03-14-2019, 04:26 PM   #147
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I find that incredibly baffling. They have left themselves with no choice BUT to have another referendum. I'd love to hear what the plan any of these MP's has is, because they seem to reject common sense at every turn.
One of the problems is the Brexit divide runs right through the middle of both parties. And while Conservative MPs don't want to break ranks with the party, half of Labour MPs represent constituencies that voted Leave. Corbyn, old-school Red that he is, almost certainly wants the UK out of the EU - he just wants the Conservatives to own the mess.
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:26 PM   #148
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I think the EU has offered a short extension, like May or something.
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:29 PM   #149
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Yeah the EU isn't going to extend the deadline unless there is another referendum right? It seems like the leaders in Britain still don't understand what they have gotten themselves into.

Also, if they do have a 2nd referendum how do they even decide what the questions are? Is it no deal vs no Brexit? May's deal vs no Brexit? No deal vs May's deal vs no Brexit? What happens in the last case if stay wins with less than 50% of the vote? Once again, what a mess!
Apparently, the EU is not in favour of another referendum. Why? that actually I am not sure of.
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:56 PM   #150
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Yeah the EU isn't going to extend the deadline unless there is another referendum right? It seems like the leaders in Britain still don't understand what they have gotten themselves into.

Also, if they do have a 2nd referendum how do they even decide what the questions are? Is it no deal vs no Brexit? May's deal vs no Brexit? No deal vs May's deal vs no Brexit? What happens in the last case if stay wins with less than 50% of the vote? Once again, what a mess!
I'm certain they're intensively immersed in introspection......in their Italian villas.
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Old 03-14-2019, 07:28 PM   #151
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fata

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Old 03-14-2019, 09:01 PM   #152
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For the relatively uninitiated, what do the no-voters in the Parliament who voted down the previous Brexit deals want exactly?


It seems like they are otherwise unappeasable, and there is a lot of time and effort being put in to coming up with a solution that doesn't seem to get any traction within Parliament. I feel like if I was Theresa May at this moment, I would say "screw this, I am out, you figure out what you want".
It sounds like Labour wants an election and the far right conservatives want a hard Brexit.
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:59 PM   #153
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Looks like a couple of the other EU nations are preparing their citizens and businesses for a brexit no-deal.

https://www.gouvernement.fr/en/franc...no-deal-brexit

https://guichet.public.lu/en/support...exit-deal.html

The Luxembourg one is amusing because it almost plays like a “choose your own adventure book”.
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:51 AM   #154
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I find that incredibly baffling. They have left themselves with no choice BUT to have another referendum. I'd love to hear what the plan any of these MP's has is, because they seem to reject common sense at every turn.
Lets say you have another referendum and its close but 56 say stay in EU and 44 say leave.

You are going to have an absolute mess of a Country on your hands. Probably riots and protests and all sorts of things.
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:59 AM   #155
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You are going to have an absolute mess of a Country on your hands. Probably riots and protests and all sorts of things.

You say this like you're not going to have it anyway.
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Old 03-15-2019, 09:13 AM   #156
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Hard to imagine a 56-44 stay vote would result in more protests and riots than a 52-48 leave vote did. A 12 point margin of victory would be significant.
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:08 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Wormius View Post
For the relatively uninitiated, what do the no-voters in the Parliament who voted down the previous Brexit deals want exactly?


It seems like they are otherwise unappeasable, and there is a lot of time and effort being put in to coming up with a solution that doesn't seem to get any traction within Parliament. I feel like if I was Theresa May at this moment, I would say "screw this, I am out, you figure out what you want".
The problem for the UK is that Brexit offers no economic upside under any circumstances what so ever and the potential for catastrophic damage, it is the equivalent of Canada tearing up NAFTA and telling the US to go pound salt in the hopes we can make up the massive loss of trade with US by selling maple syrup to the EU. No one wants to be seen as responsible for the massive pain whichever Brexit happens causes, they are all positioning themselves to be able to say 'I never supported this and if I'd been in charge it would have gone much better'

Any and every reasonably bright person involved knows this, the major pro Brexit financial backers have all moved their assets out of the UK and it looks increasingly clear their plan was to short the pound and make money out of the chaos, in fact the father of Jacob Rees Moog literally published a book in the 70's on how to make money from a massive economic crash and is considered the father of British disaster capitalism.

Farage and Johnson, the two politicians that led the campaign only ever saw Brexit as a vehicle for their own political advancement, Johnson didn't decide to back Brexit until the night before the vote, he had written editorials, one in favour of the EU one against and at the eleventh hour decided he had a better chance of gaining power within the Conservatives by leading the anti EU forces he assumed would be left after the vote had failed, he was never particularly known as anti EU before.
Nigel Farage had tried desperately to get into the Conservative Party in the 90's but was far too middle class and not particularly successful and I suspect his whole political ideology has more to do with his resentment of the true posh boys from Eton at the top who looked down on him than the EU where he has happily lived with his German wife and then french girlfriend, his kids have all applied for German Citizenship in order to retain the benefits of EU membership.

Brexit is literally a political movement led by leaders who have no belief in the movement themselves who are all trying to distance themselves from the reality of Brexit

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