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Old 01-15-2019, 09:45 AM   #21
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^ no. 53 % of the people who voted (pretty big distinction right there!) made a stupid and uninformed decision which was in big part fueled by misinformation, racism/xenophobia and false promises.
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Old 01-15-2019, 09:46 AM   #22
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Ah yes 53% of people in Britain are racists
That or they really need to take an economics course. 1st day. How fall is the Pound going to fall? 25%?
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Old 01-15-2019, 09:59 AM   #23
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Well if the people vote for something shouldn't it be the politicians responsibility to get a deal done?
The order should have been reversed... they should have negotiated the deal and then had the referendum (so that people could vote on the actual deal and not whatever folk imagined it would be). But David Cameron was a big dumbass.

I do think they ought to have a 2nd Referendum with a ranked ballot where folk can choose Stay/Hard Brexit/Brexit-Deal. I get the argument against a 2nd referendum (the people had their say) but it's probably one of the worst policy decisions ever made by a government and it'd be a vote for something less abstract so I think they ought to.
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Old 01-15-2019, 10:00 AM   #24
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How was this not commented on? Is this something that everyone's seen and I'm just now getting to? This is absolutely amazing. FFS, Labour should buy this and run it as an ad, unedited.
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Old 01-15-2019, 10:09 AM   #25
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Great ad! Hey look we are all going into economic ruin! LOL!
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Old 01-15-2019, 10:24 AM   #26
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Why would anyone in Britain want to leave the EU without a deal? (course why would they want to leave the EU at all?!!)

Is there massive Trump koolaid being dispensed over there?
I was in London right before the Brexit vote and in California right before the US election. Brexit and Trumpmania were eerily similar. Right down to the same talking points.
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Old 01-15-2019, 11:36 AM   #27
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To me, both brexit and part of Trump campaign were predicated on the idea that some pie in the sky 'deals' could be made and that everything would be amazing after these deals happened. For Brexit, I think the leave campaign sold an unrealistic idea that leaving the EU would get rid of all their problems but keep all the good things about being in the EU. That just was never possible. Similarly, Trump claimed all these deals like Iran nuclear, NAFTA, and trade policy/tariffs/deficits would be shredded and he would negotiate insanely better deals as if there were no other sides involved that aren't just going to take inferior deals.

So to me, now that people can see the truth in what the actual best deal is for leaving the EU, there may be some validity in asking for an additional referendum.
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Old 01-15-2019, 11:49 AM   #28
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To me, both brexit and part of Trump campaign were predicated on the idea that some pie in the sky 'deals' could be made and that everything would be amazing after these deals happened. For Brexit, I think the leave campaign sold an unrealistic idea that leaving the EU would get rid of all their problems but keep all the good things about being in the EU. That just was never possible. Similarly, Trump claimed all these deals like Iran nuclear, NAFTA, and trade policy/tariffs/deficits would be shredded and he would negotiate insanely better deals as if there were no other sides involved that aren't just going to take inferior deals.

So to me, now that people can see the truth in what the actual best deal is for leaving the EU, there may be some validity in asking for an additional referendum.
If i was May i would revoke the citizenship of David Cameron for putting the country into needless turmoil.
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Old 01-15-2019, 11:53 AM   #29
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If i was May i would revoke the citizenship of David Cameron for putting the country into needless turmoil.
Cameron was bad, but weasels like Farage and Boris were a far bigger problem. I'll never forget Farage screaming "let's stop paying the EU and give the money to the NHS instead!" for months, only to turn around and pretty much say "I never really said that" a day after the referendum. What a colossal #######.

Lots of people bought the lies and lots of "remainers" didn't vote. That's why we Europeans are all part of this ####show now.

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Old 01-15-2019, 12:35 PM   #30
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For Brexit, I think the leave campaign sold an unrealistic idea that leaving the EU would get rid of all their problems but keep all the good things about being in the EU. That just was never possible. Similarly, Trump claimed all these deals like Iran nuclear, NAFTA, and trade policy/tariffs/deficits would be shredded and he would negotiate insanely better deals as if there were no other sides involved that aren't just going to take inferior deals.
That's a polite way of saying they both deliberately and blatantly liedthrough their teeth.
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Old 01-15-2019, 12:41 PM   #31
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Deal absolutely destroyed.

432-202 against.

Probably one of the biggest losses ever.
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Old 01-15-2019, 12:44 PM   #32
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Not even close. GTFO.
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Old 01-15-2019, 12:44 PM   #33
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holy cow.
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Old 01-15-2019, 01:17 PM   #34
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... how was that not a confidence motion?

I simply cannot fathom how a defeat on that doesn't trigger an election.
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Old 01-15-2019, 01:27 PM   #35
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... how was that not a confidence motion?

I simply cannot fathom how a defeat on that doesn't trigger an election.
I think that comes tomorrow
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Old 01-15-2019, 01:33 PM   #36
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Because it's a vote on one very polarizing issue where no one was expected to toe the line right from the start.

Tomorrow it'll be back to voting on party lines with the 118 Tory MPs and the DUP who all voted No today backing the government.

But, yeah a big vote of no confidence in what sort of deal they have managed to negotiate.
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Old 01-15-2019, 01:33 PM   #37
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I think that comes tomorrow
It does... and the DUP has said it will support May on it. I just don't see how the vote itself wasn't one. Can't wrap my head around such a resounding defeat on such a huge issue isn't inherently an expression of non-confidence.

Edit: I mean, say she survives the non-confidence vote... what then? It took two years to get to where they are now after such a resounding defeat I can't imagine they're just a small tweek away from getting a deal that can have the confidence of the House.
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Old 01-15-2019, 01:43 PM   #38
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Here's the link.
Do you guys use the Guardian? Great site and it's free!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ajority-of-230
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Old 01-15-2019, 01:58 PM   #39
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Deal absolutely destroyed.

432-202 against.

Probably one of the biggest losses ever.

Wow, that's about as crushing a defeat as I've ever seen.
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Old 01-15-2019, 02:06 PM   #40
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Ah yes 53% of people in Britain are racists
I know, an astonishingly low number considering the Brits I know.....

I kid, I kid!

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I don't see what the big deal with having a second referendum is. When they had the first one, no one knew the terms. Now they know the terms, they should be able to have a say. It's like being asked if you want desert but you haven't looked at the menu yet so you say yes. Then you get the desert menu and it's full of turds and dirt. No one would expect you to still order desert. Yet May seems insistent on shoving turds and dirt down everyone's throat.
This is the thing. I kind of feel that most Brits need to be given something of a pass on the initial referendum because they were fed a pack of 'hopes' that turned out to just be outright lies.

We see it here too. People saying that things are one thing and then it becoming abundantly clear that they have no actual understanding of that thing.

The Brits were told that their current deal was bad and that they could get a better deal (sound familiar?) and would be better off on their own because they were promised this cornucopia of awesome things....in order to go away?

At face value that doesnt make much sense. Does it?

Problem was that nobody actually promised them anything, the cornucopia was lie and the people who lied bailed immediately.

Its like a bad prank where the punking is so bad that even Ashton Kutcher refused to show up at the end.
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