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Old 08-31-2018, 01:56 PM   #21
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No deal done by Trumpís deadline. Thatís a shame.


Daniel Dale@ddale8


Breaking: Canada and the U.S. have not reached a trade deal today, a Canadian official says. The talks are done for today, scheduled to resume on Wednesday. The Canadian team is set to go home by tomorrow morning.
Iím soooo looking forward to the trump statement.
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Old 08-31-2018, 01:58 PM   #22
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Then describing 2 views that are quite prevalent in downtown Calgary isn't all that out to lunch.
I really hope the second view isn't prevalent in downtown Calgary. I definitely expect that some people hold those views, but that those people are racist trash and represent a small minority rather than being the prevalent majority.
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Old 08-31-2018, 02:00 PM   #23
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Environmental groups could care less about indigenous people and use them to further their cause.
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Old 08-31-2018, 02:02 PM   #24
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Environmental groups could care less about indigenous people and use them to further their cause.
Welp, looks like the workers at the hot take factory aren't leaving early for the long weekend.
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Old 08-31-2018, 02:03 PM   #25
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I really hope the second view isn't prevalent in downtown Calgary. I definitely expect that some people hold those views, but that those people are racist trash and represent a small minority rather than being the prevalent majority.
I think the amount of people who are in the "done appeasing first nations" group would be quite large, but to extend to the call derogatory names isn't large.
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Old 08-31-2018, 02:03 PM   #26
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I really hope the second view isn't prevalent in downtown Calgary. I definitely expect that some people hold those views, but that those people are racist trash and represent a small minority rather than being the prevalent majority.
There's definitely a view in oil sector that first nations are getting used by foreign interest groups to advance an unjust cause.
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Old 08-31-2018, 02:06 PM   #27
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There's definitely a view in oil sector that first nations are getting used by foreign interest groups to advance an unjust cause.
I don't doubt that there is. About 8 years ago, I had this notion that I wanted to be a lawyer (don't worry it passed), and the one area of law I was advised to go into if I wanted to make the big bucks was indigenous law. I don't think that means that all or even most environmentalists don't care about indigenous groups. That said, it is amusing when indigenous rights around hunting, fishing, extracting their own resources, conflict with the eco-agenda.
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Old 08-31-2018, 02:07 PM   #28
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I think the amount of people who are in the "done appeasing first nations" group would be quite large, but to extend to the call derogatory names isn't large.
This. There's a sense that a minority (enviros, first nations) etc. are affecting the majority and getting a larger voice in the conversation then they deserve.

No racist tones at all. Also, there's a lot of first nations that support the project that aren't getting a fair voice either.
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Old 08-31-2018, 02:07 PM   #29
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Welp, looks like the workers at the hot take factory aren't leaving early for the long weekend.
Environmental groups have a long and storied history of completely ignoring inconvenient native interests. The documentary 'Angry Inuk' provides an excellent native-perspective case study for instance, if you're looking for evidence. But I guess it's easier to use 'muh feels' to dismiss everything you don't like as a "hot take" so whatever.
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Old 08-31-2018, 02:08 PM   #30
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I think the amount of people who are in the "done appeasing first nations" group would be quite large, but to extend to the call derogatory names isn't large.
"Why can't we just go in and pilferage their lands with impunity like the good old days?"

EDIT: I'm being facetious, FYI.
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Old 08-31-2018, 02:10 PM   #31
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Environmental groups have a long and storied history of completely ignoring inconvenient native interests. The documentary 'Angry Inuk' provides an excellent native-perspective case study for instance, if you're looking for evidence. But I guess it's easier to use 'muh feels' to dismiss everything you don't like as a "hot take" so whatever.
Yeah, just addressed this a couple of posts up.
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Old 08-31-2018, 02:10 PM   #32
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I really don't understand what else he's supposed to do to show that he cares. If anything the guy has cared too much about the project from a political strategy perspective. He's already cut a $4.5B cheque that has seriously hampered his chances for re-election in more urbanized, left-leaning parts of the country. You might not agree with the approach he's taken, but to say he doesn't care is just outright blind partisanship/hatred at this point.

I was responding to an earlier post where the person said that he didn't care about Alberta, and I said if he doesn't care, maybe I wrote my post poorly.


But I still think that Confederation and the Constitution at some point need to be reopened to reflect the modern era. Right now provinces are just willing to ignore whatever's not convenient to them anyways.
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Old 08-31-2018, 02:12 PM   #33
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But I still think that Confederation and the Constitution at some point need to be reopened to reflect the modern era. Right now provinces are just willing to ignore whatever's not convenient to them anyways.
Yeah, I think people saw what that did to the Mulroney Conservatives and now it's pretty much in the "Yeah, F that" section of every party's strategy guide.
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Old 08-31-2018, 02:13 PM   #34
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Replace homeless with first nations. Kramer and Newman as Green Peace.

KRAMER: (Brainstorming) What about the homeless?

NEWMAN: Can't we worry about them later?

KRAMER: (Explaining) To pull the rickshaw.

NEWMAN: (Pondering Kramer's plan out loud) They do have an intimate knowledge of the street..
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Old 08-31-2018, 02:16 PM   #35
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There might be a large group of people believe that Canada should be "done" with appeasing First Nations groups, but most people operate on hyperbole because of political bias or media influence. Most of those people have not sat down with First Nations folks to understand what they actually want. If they did, they might find a large swath of support from First Nations people for the pipeline, including First Nations folks (and just people in general) off of Indigenous lands.

Even just watching a segment on CBC yesterday, there was a First Nations leader being interviewed from the Hope, BC area who said if people really knew what they wanted, it would be for two things - one, they want (and need) the pipeline to improve the quality of life for the community. And two, he would want environmentalists to stop calling him and telling him he needs their help.That's pretty telling, and something I think isn't highlighted enough of in this debate - people or parties creating false narratives.

It's a sweeping generalization to say that environmentalists and First Nations scored a victory. There are divided opinions even within those groups.
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Old 08-31-2018, 02:19 PM   #36
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There might be a large group of people believe that Canada should be "done" with appeasing First Nations groups, but most people operate on hyperbole because of political bias or media influence. Most of those people have not sat down with First Nations folks to understand what they actually want. If they did, they might find a large swath of support from First Nations people for the pipeline, including First Nations folks (and just people in general) off of Indigenous lands.

Even just watching a segment on CBC yesterday, there was a First Nations leader being interviewed from the Hope, BC area who said if people really knew what they wanted, it would be for two things - one, they want (and need) the pipeline to improve the quality of life for the community. And two, he would want environmentalists to stop calling him and telling him he needs their help.That's pretty telling, and something I think isn't highlighted enough of in this debate - people or parties creating false narratives.

It's a sweeping generalization to say that environmentalists and First Nations scored a victory. There are divided opinions even within those groups.
I think people also need to understand that there's a bit more at stake here than just the pipeline for First Nations with regards to setting a legal precedent for the "duty to consult" principle.
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Old 08-31-2018, 02:30 PM   #37
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Such as...
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Old 08-31-2018, 02:40 PM   #38
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Jesus Christ.
Btw did you read the FCA decision?
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Old 08-31-2018, 02:46 PM   #39
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"Why can't we just go in and pilferage their lands with impunity like the good old days?"

EDIT: I'm being facetious, FYI.
Haha I actually hear this often from 2 of the first nations groups I work with regularly when it comes to discussing things like TMX and such. These are 2 of the more wealthier groups in Alberta though due to O&G activities.
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Old 08-31-2018, 03:06 PM   #40
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There might be a large group of people believe that Canada should be "done" with appeasing First Nations groups, but most people operate on hyperbole because of political bias or media influence. Most of those people have not sat down with First Nations folks to understand what they actually want. If they did, they might find a large swath of support from First Nations people for the pipeline, including First Nations folks (and just people in general) off of Indigenous lands.

Even just watching a segment on CBC yesterday, there was a First Nations leader being interviewed from the Hope, BC area who said if people really knew what they wanted, it would be for two things - one, they want (and need) the pipeline to improve the quality of life for the community. And two, he would want environmentalists to stop calling him and telling him he needs their help.That's pretty telling, and something I think isn't highlighted enough of in this debate - people or parties creating false narratives.

It's a sweeping generalization to say that environmentalists and First Nations scored a victory. There are divided opinions even within those groups.
Totally accurate. BC doesn't have treaties like 6, 7 and 8 in Alberta which allow for more industry-friendly access for development. In BC, a band from Hope could theoretically object to a project in Fort St.John if they can claim they had ancestral territorial rights there. It's a problem for development in BC, but not an insurmountable one.

I watched that interview of the Chief near Hope you're talking about and it was interesting. Many people in downtown Calgary are familiar with, say, the Blueberry band in NEBC near Montney development which take... a different "tone"... to FN consultation.

Some bands are really difficult to deal with, and make it almost impossible for 'consultation' to be executed properly. Further, I believe most regulatory bodies are actually supposed to be the ones doing the consultation but in practice over the years have effectively and unofficially shifted that responsibility to industry. Because 'consultation' is not defined, nor is it necessarily supposed to be veto rights, it's created a very complex problem to resolve. I think for a long time, industry has known they were exposed from a legal perspective which FN groups are now picking up on.

I wouldn't say general sentiment in downtown Calgary is racist at all, more just frustrated with the state of affairs and the fact that there really is no good answer and makes people feel like they are being effectively quasi-extorted and not being dealt with in good faith.
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