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Old 01-05-2011, 05:15 PM   #1
driveway
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Default Vaccines don't cause autism (duh)

Famous british study linking Autism and childhood vaccinations has been exposed as a fraud.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/05...pt=T1&iref=BN1

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Wakefield has been unable to reproduce his results in the face of criticism, and other researchers have been unable to match them. Most of his co-authors withdrew their names from the study in 2004 after learning he had had been paid by a law firm that intended to sue vaccine manufacturers -- a serious conflict of interest he failed to disclose. After years on controversy, the Lancet, the prestigious journal that originally published the research, retracted Wakefield's paper last February.
Wonder what Jenny McCarthy is going to do to stay famous now? Take off her clothes again?
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:26 PM   #2
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It's been pretty common knowledge for a while it was a fraud (as opposed to just being incompetent), at least in scientific/medical circles, but nice to see the journal officially taking the stance.
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:32 PM   #3
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You could do a whole new study on people who swear the vaccine caused the problem.
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:47 PM   #4
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But, they haven't disproven government microchips In vaccines now have they?
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Old 01-05-2011, 10:01 PM   #5
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http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...arthy+vaccines

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...arthy+vaccines

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...arthy+vaccines
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Old 01-05-2011, 11:40 PM   #6
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Wakefield is not the only guy coming out with this vaccine-autism link. If there is absolutely no question of vaccine safety, why are families being awarded millions of dollars after their child gets autism from taking vaccines?

http://www.emaxhealth.com/1275/vacci...-poling-family

"Hannah developed autism after receiving vaccinations for nine diseases during one visit to her doctor."
"Soon after receiving the vaccines, Hannah stopped eating, developed high fevers, began having screaming fits, and showed signs of autism. Her parents then filed an autism claim in federal vaccine court."

I don't take any shots myself, including the silly swine flu shot, but I think this vaccine culture of ours is getting out of hand. Most kids in America get way too many vaccines at early age.
Like ...9 shots in one visit for an 18 month old?
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Old 01-05-2011, 11:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck View Post
Wakefield is not the only guy coming out with this vaccine-autism link. If there is absolutely no question of vaccine safety, why are families being awarded millions of dollars after their child gets autism from taking vaccines?

http://www.emaxhealth.com/1275/vacci...-poling-family

"Hannah developed autism after receiving vaccinations for nine diseases during one visit to her doctor."
"Soon after receiving the vaccines, Hannah stopped eating, developed high fevers, began having screaming fits, and showed signs of autism. Her parents then filed an autism claim in federal vaccine court."

I don't take any shots myself, including the silly swine flu shot, but I think this vaccine culture of ours is getting out of hand. Most kids in America get way too many vaccines at early age.
Like ...9 shots in one visit for an 18 month old?
Please say you're joking. Vaccines have literally saved millions of lives worldwide, possibly even more. I hope you don't have kids some day and refuse to get them polio / MMR vaccines etc. Come on man, common sense and rational scientific data say you're way off the grid here.

Last edited by ResAlien; 01-06-2011 at 08:25 AM. Reason: me spell gud.
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Old 01-06-2011, 12:13 AM   #8
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Mikey's not actually a real person. He's an account that's been created and is run by a group of guys who just like to screw with posters on CP. No one actually thinks like that.
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Old 01-06-2011, 12:15 AM   #9
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9 shots in one visit.

I actually lol'd.
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Old 01-06-2011, 12:28 AM   #10
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I have made the choice not to have my child vaccinated after their 4 month shots, however Autism wasn't the main consideration. I don't like the sheer amount of crap they put in the vaccines and the fact that there are allergens in them (eggs, sorbitol, feathers) that have had adverse reactions with a number of family members. I do not feel this is the safest way to build up an immunity in a small child.

When they come up with a way to protect against disease without putting far too many chemicals into these small children, I'll rethink my stance. Also, when they actually employ proper hygiene and knowledgable staff in vaccination clinics and not women who say "Well you have to do this otherwise (insert scare tactic)", I may rethink my stance.

And I realize my opinion is unpopular and I have been called everything from a murderer letting my child walk around infect the immune deficient to having people suggest I should have my child taken away for my decision. I think the debates on the subject elict far too much of an emotional response for either side to come to common ground. Those who decide to vaccine do so and stand by it viligantly. Those who don't, do the same. Nothing good ever comes from the discussion.
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Old 01-06-2011, 12:38 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Drury18 View Post
When they come up with a way to protect against disease without putting far too many chemicals into these small children, I'll rethink my stance. Also, when they actually employ proper hygiene and knowledgable staff in vaccination clinics and not women who say "Well you have to do this otherwise (insert scare tactic)", I may rethink my stance.
You realize that clinics are often run by Registered Nurses who likely have more education than you on the subject? It isn't the lady down the street who stocks shelves at WalMart giving your child vaccinations. If you don't want to get your kid vaccinated that is your call however I do believe that you are needlessly running risks, because do you know what everyone has an adverse reaction too... smallpox.
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Old 01-06-2011, 01:41 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Drury18 View Post
I have made the choice not to have my child vaccinated after their 4 month shots, however Autism wasn't the main consideration. I don't like the sheer amount of crap they put in the vaccines and the fact that there are allergens in them (eggs, sorbitol, feathers) that have had adverse reactions with a number of family members. I do not feel this is the safest way to build up an immunity in a small child.

When they come up with a way to protect against disease without putting far too many chemicals into these small children, I'll rethink my stance. Also, when they actually employ proper hygiene and knowledgable staff in vaccination clinics and not women who say "Well you have to do this otherwise (insert scare tactic)", I may rethink my stance.

And I realize my opinion is unpopular and I have been called everything from a murderer letting my child walk around infect the immune deficient to having people suggest I should have my child taken away for my decision. I think the debates on the subject elict far too much of an emotional response for either side to come to common ground. Those who decide to vaccine do so and stand by it viligantly. Those who don't, do the same. Nothing good ever comes from the discussion.


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Old 01-06-2011, 06:40 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drury18 View Post
I have made the choice not to have my child vaccinated after their 4 month shots, however Autism wasn't the main consideration. I don't like the sheer amount of crap they put in the vaccines and the fact that there are allergens in them (eggs, sorbitol, feathers) that have had adverse reactions with a number of family members. I do not feel this is the safest way to build up an immunity in a small child.

When they come up with a way to protect against disease without putting far too many chemicals into these small children, I'll rethink my stance. Also, when they actually employ proper hygiene and knowledgable staff in vaccination clinics and not women who say "Well you have to do this otherwise (insert scare tactic)", I may rethink my stance.

And I realize my opinion is unpopular and I have been called everything from a murderer letting my child walk around infect the immune deficient to having people suggest I should have my child taken away for my decision. I think the debates on the subject elict far too much of an emotional response for either side to come to common ground. Those who decide to vaccine do so and stand by it viligantly. Those who don't, do the same. Nothing good ever comes from the discussion.
I'm pretty sure we can't reason you out of something you didn't reason yourself into.
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Old 01-06-2011, 07:43 AM   #14
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Its so frustrating to hear anti-vacc people and seeing the results of their poisonous claims actually create people like Drury and many friend I see on facebook falling for their nonsense.

Its ironic people still talk about 'chemicals' going into their babies, if they even had a remote clue as to the amounts we're talking about and that a normal healthy diet exposes your children to much worse maybe they'd realize how stupid these comments are.

Science denialism is a great harm and seems to be only getting worse with modern social media, FK you Jenny Mccarthy, FK you Inmate Wakefield (wishful thinking.)

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Old 01-06-2011, 08:04 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck View Post
Wakefield is not the only guy coming out with this vaccine-autism link. If there is absolutely no question of vaccine safety, why are families being awarded millions of dollars after their child gets autism from taking vaccines?

http://www.emaxhealth.com/1275/vacci...-poling-family

"Hannah developed autism after receiving vaccinations for nine diseases during one visit to her doctor."
"Soon after receiving the vaccines, Hannah stopped eating, developed high fevers, began having screaming fits, and showed signs of autism. Her parents then filed an autism claim in federal vaccine court."

I don't take any shots myself, including the silly swine flu shot, but I think this vaccine culture of ours is getting out of hand. Most kids in America get way too many vaccines at early age.
Like ...9 shots in one visit for an 18 month old?
Autism is very often a diagnosis given to children by lazy doctors who don't have any other answers.

I never really paid much attention to this claim specifically, but I am pretty cynical about many vaccination programs. No doubt vaccines in general save lives when they are needed, but there is also no doubt in my mind that pharmacutical companies overhype things so they can sell more vaccines. I also don't doubt that a certain percentage of people can get sick from vaccines and the different agents used to make and administer them.
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Old 01-06-2011, 08:14 AM   #16
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Autism is very often a diagnosis given to children by lazy doctors who don't have any other answers.

I never really paid much attention to this claim specifically, but I am pretty cynical about many vaccination programs. No doubt vaccines in general save lives when they are needed, but there is also no doubt in my mind that pharmacutical companies overhype things so they can sell more vaccines.
Don't you think they could make more money by treating the seriously ill people instead? Why does the government fund vaccine programs... because it is cheaper than treating sick people.

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I also don't doubt that a certain percentage of people can get sick from vaccines and the different agents used to make and administer them.
Based upon what evidence? I don't doubt that people 'can' react or get sick from a vaccination, but do you have any understanding of the frequency or severity of these issues?

Furthermore, what is your understanding of the body's immune system? Do you understand what an antigen or an antibody is, or how immune responses are triggered? Most of the 'fears' can be resolved by better understanding of how our bodies actually work.

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The number of recommended childhood vaccines has increased exponentially in the last 50 years. A fully immunized child by the age of 2 years will have received 14 different vaccines and up to 26 injections. Some healthcare visits may require five injections at a single visit. Understandably, parents have voiced concern about too many vaccines overloading or weakening the fragile immune system of their infant...
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Today's vaccines contain far fewer antigens than the immune system is designed to respond to. Medical advances in vaccinology have contributed to the decline in the number of antigens in modern vaccines. For example, (the earlier) pertussis vaccine contained approximately 3000 proteins compared with the two to five proteins found in the current ... vaccines.
Source Medscape, emphasis mine.

Summary: Despite the increase in the number of vaccines we receive today(and the much larger number of diseases they protect against), our children are actually exposed to far fewer antigens than we were as children.
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Old 01-06-2011, 08:23 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Drury18 View Post
I don't like the sheer amount of crap they put in the vaccines and the fact that there are allergens in them (eggs, sorbitol, feathers) that have had adverse reactions with a number of family members.
So you'd rather risk your kid being seriously ill or worse because of an adverse reaction? What kind of adverse reaction are we talking about? A rash? Or life threatening reaction?

Have you ever seen a child with whooping cough? Do you know what the disability and mortality rates are for measles?

It's easy to say "oh I'll just let them get the measles", but people forget that a certain percentage of kids ended up disabled for the rest of their lives, and another percentage ended up not making it through the measles at all. That's not a scare tactic, that's cold hard facts.

You protest the sheer amount of "crap" and "allergens" in vaccines, which ones precisely are you worried about?

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I do not feel this is the safest way to build up an immunity in a small child.
There's only one way to build up the immunity of a human; expose them to the thing that would cause them to get sick so the body will produce antibodies that combat that thing. You can do this two ways, you can get sick and run the relatively high risk of serious consequences of that, or you can introduce a harmless version of the thing into the body so the body still produces the antibodies, but you don't get sick. There is of course still a risk associated with vaccines, but that risk is far far lower, one in millions or tens of millions rather than one in hundreds or thousands.

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When they come up with a way to protect against disease without putting far too many chemicals into these small children, I'll rethink my stance.
Which chemicals? How do you know they're more dangerous than the disease?

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Originally Posted by Drury18 View Post
Also, when they actually employ proper hygiene and knowledgable staff in vaccination clinics and not women who say "Well you have to do this otherwise (insert scare tactic)", I may rethink my stance.
It's not a scare tactic to tell you that if you don't vaccinate that your child has a significant chance of getting seriously sick.



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And I realize my opinion is unpopular and I have been called everything from a murderer letting my child walk around infect the immune deficient to having people suggest I should have my child taken away for my decision. I think the debates on the subject elict far too much of an emotional response for either side to come to common ground. Those who decide to vaccine do so and stand by it viligantly. Those who don't, do the same. Nothing good ever comes from the discussion.
Well, children ARE all of a sudden dying of diseases that have been almost gone for decades because too many parents are refusing to vaccinate their children, so what do YOU think is an appropriate response to that?
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Old 01-06-2011, 08:30 AM   #18
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I never really paid much attention to this claim specifically, but I am pretty cynical about many vaccination programs. No doubt vaccines in general save lives when they are needed, but there is also no doubt in my mind that pharmacutical companies overhype things so they can sell more vaccines.
This is such a commonly used argument about big pharma that its important to at least look at the truth here. Firstly vaccines are not very profitable, they are not easy to produce and require a lot of effort to produce and distribute. Ive seen numbers that suggest vaccines represent 1.5% of the overall sales from most drug companies that produce them along side the REAL money in pharma, prescription drugs.

Quote:
I also don't doubt that a certain percentage of people can get sick from vaccines and the different agents used to make and administer them.
Much like any medical drug, procedure, types of foods (allergens), etc.. The key is the risk factors, the risk of vaccination is infinitesimally small, and are very benign risks mostly, only on very rare occasions could anything serious occur. However the risks associated with not vaccinating is very serious and has not only risks to the un-vaccinated but to those around them who cannot be vaccinated (herd immunity.)

This is exactly the problem, people have 'feelings' that some of the ingredients don't seem like a good idea, that 'so many shots' at one time don't seem like a good idea, that 'big pharma wants big money' means that vaccines can't be trusted.

All this against a backdrop of overwhelming science, not from one source, not from dozens, but thousands and over a period of 50+ yrs and from all over the world.

Yet people want to distrust medical officials, health officials, scientists, and their governments; all over 'feelings' and distrust over pharmaceutical companies.

Are people are aware that the vast majority of life saving medicine's people use today are thanks to these companies? My father takes 9 different medications that allow him to live a healthier longer life, without them no doubt we would have lost him 10-20yrs ago.
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Old 01-06-2011, 08:33 AM   #19
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Theres really no sense trying to reason with irrational fear. It pretty sad though when someone dies from a completely preventable illness.
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Old 01-06-2011, 08:38 AM   #20
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It's not a scare tactic to tell you that if you don't vaccinate that your child has a significant chance of getting seriously sick.
I'd say that is a scare tactic actually, and this is the way the media typically acts when flu season rolls around or some "pandemic" like swine flu comes about mysteriously.

Getting a measles shot is one thing but getting a seasonal flu vaccine every year is unnecessary. It's known that vitamin D supplements are just as effective, if not more so than taking the shot. I have not been seriously sick in years and I don't take any vaccines.
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