Minneapolis PD Suffocate Unarmed Black Man Who Later Dies in Hospital

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Azure

This isn't telling the whole story. What happens after they yield?

What happens if you purposely block off the path and refuse to move? What do you think the cops will do then?

Good question.

I believe the appropriate next action is to start ramming the police car into oncoming traffic, t-boning as many cars as possible.

Seriously, if the first car doesn't yield the next should. Its a reasonable expectation that the first car into the intersection may not hear/see the police car.

Keep in mind in your example the comparator is more the police car is at a red light, no emergency, and wanting to move with traffic going through the intersection blocking him due to their green light.

....

Now to the topic at hand, (commenting in general and not specifically to Azure) where the officer goes from having the self defense argument to losing it is when he clears the crowd, stops, then instantly rams the protester again speeding away with him on the hood.

There is no justification for that. None.

Even if you believe the car clearing the crowd was justified (which without debating its merits, is a reasonable belief) once clear and stopped, the threat is over for the moment, even if only for a few seconds. The officer then should have cleared the scene entirely without hitting the protestor that was in front of him. They should have given that protester the ability to move. The officer did not.

That is unjustified. Regardless of any defense of self safety, that was inexcusable.

[zamler]

Can we all please stop posting and responding to this person.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Azure

So you are okay if they get out of the vehicle and start shooting, but you have a problem if they stay within the relative safety of their car, and force themselves forward.

No, I'm simply not okay with indiscriminately driving into a crowd of teenaged peaceful protesters. Full stop. It's not a hard topic to wrap your brain around.

Originally Posted by Azure

Given that the protests have turned violent very quickly, and what those cops are seeing is a protest that is quickly heading south, you think they should get out and start shooting. Good Lord.

Perfect solution. Nothing to stop violence like killing and maiming all the protesters before they get a chance to riot. Big fan of Minority Report?

Originally Posted by Azure

Seriously, you have no frickin' idea what you're talking about. You just want to rag on the cops for stirring sh&t up, and you refuse to admit the impossible position they are in.

Who do you think put themselves in that "impossible position". Don't inch up into a crowd of protesters to try and steer their direction and this doesn't happen at all. But keeping the police accountable for their actions is just so foreign of a concept to many of us that it's hard to imagine.

Originally Posted by Azure

There is no good response to that scenario. Seriously. If they get out of the car they are more at risk. Why should they put their lives on the line like that?

When the best course of action is to do nothing, then do nothing. Let them escalated to the point you actually need to do something (in which case the other 50 cops behind them could have done something), but don't instantly go to driving through a crowd of peaceful protesters on a planned march is never the response. Never ever ever.

Originally Posted by Azure

I just don't get you. It really seems like you just want to rag on what the cops do all the time. And you intentionally avoid answering, and when you do answer, your response is 'get out and shoot.'

I want to rag on this cop, and any idiots who would defend him, for running over a bunch of peaceful teenage protesters.

I don't see what's hard to get from my point of view. If there is innocent people in front of you, do not drive into them. That's it. It's about as simple of a concept you'll find.

[schteve_d]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

a crowd of teenaged peaceful protesters.

a crowd of peaceful protesters

a bunch of peaceful teenage protesters.

If there is innocent people in front of you,

And....again.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by jayswin

@ oling roachenin - Why do you keep saying "peaceful"? I've been as anti-American police as anyone since this started, but why do you keep ignoring that they just had a window smashed out and had a crowd at their cruiser screaming and chanting?

Because I'm refusing to lump in the 50 people who were marching for hours with the one guy who decided to lean on the car.

As for the smashed window, I would need to see video of it because no video (of which there are several), appear to show it. There's no reaction like you would expect to find if someone broke a window of a police cruiser. There's no noise. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but it's a convenient excuse. Good thing there's half a dozen cruisers behind with dashcams that will be able to show it conclusively....

In any case, I'm not saying that guy was a peaceful protester, I'm saying those who the cop hit were. Chanting and screaming is peaceful, come on now.

[schteve_d]

Originally Posted by zamler

Can we all please stop posting and responding to this person.

I thanked your post, and then I thought: "oh geez, you're not talking about me, are you?" Lol.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by schteve_d

I thanked your post, and then I thought: "oh geez, you're not talking about me, are you? Lol.

Of course not.

[schteve_d]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Because I'm refusing to lump in the 50 people who were marching for hours with the one guy who decided to lean on the car.

What about the guy that smashed out the back window? Or the guy that jumped on the hood? How about those banging on the side windows.

Imagine lumping in some bad people that don't deserve it. Like, oh, I know, some police.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by schteve_d

What about the guy that smashed out the back window? Or the guy that jumped on the hood? How about those banging on the side windows.

Imagine lumping in some bad people that don't deserve it. Like, oh, I know, some police.

Yeah, guess what? I'm NOT talking about anyone who smashed a police vehicle. You want to point out specific people who deserved to be ran over (lol), I'll disagree they deserved to be ran over, but will likely agree they weren't peaceful protesters.

I'm talking about the numerous innocent and peaceful protesters who first touched the vehicle when they were ran over by it and the dip#### officer.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...es/3278190001/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...uv-protesters/

https://twitter.com/EvanPetzold/stat...-protesters%2F

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...st/3275899001/

Lots of videos and articles on it.

If you look at the dash cam footage from the links above to me the officers first mistake is allowing himself to become surrounded by protestors. He has clear road in front of him. Once that space closes in he has lost opportunities to escape.

So to answer the question of what the police should have done (Which for some reason Oling refuses to want to discuss) is not allow themselves to be put into a situation where they do not have avenues of non violent escape.

Officers need to stop needlessly putting their lives at risk.

[schteve_d]

Originally Posted by GGG

If you look at the dash cam footage from the links above to me the officers first mistake is allowing himself to become surrounded by protestors. He has clear road in front of him. Once that space closes in he has lost opportunities to escape.

So to answer the question of what the police should have done (Which for some reason Oling refuses to want to discuss) is not allow themselves to be put into a situation where they do not have avenues of non violent escape.

Officers need to stop needlessly putting their lives at risk.

So they gave the crowd too much benefit of the doubt? They just can't win.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GGG

If you look at the dash cam footage from the links above to me the officers first mistake is allowing himself to become surrounded by protestors. He has clear road in front of him. Once that space closes in he has lost opportunities to escape.

So to answer the question of what the police should have done (Which for some reason Oling refuses to want to discuss) is not allow themselves to be put into a situation where they do not have avenues of non violent escape.

Officers need to stop needlessly putting their lives at risk.

What? I said numerous times the police officer should not have put himself in that position....Then I would say, once they put themselves in that position, the best thing to do would be nothing. Wait for the many many police directly behind to do something so you don't have to drive over innocent people. Then I would say arrest if you can, and if you actually feared for your safety than I would say eliminate those threats as you normally would. Just at no point ever do you run over innocent peaceful protesters.

Of course they put themselves in a position to get surrounded, then claim they fear for safety (which I said in my second post on the subject would be the case), and now people will give them carte blanche to excuse their action.

[schteve_d]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

What? Just at no point ever do you run over innocent peaceful protesters.

The "innocent peaceful protesters" jumping on the hood, or the other ones?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by schteve_d

So they gave the crowd too much benefit of the doubt? They just can't win.

Dude, your original rational for defending him driving over a bunch of innocent teens was that he got a call and was trying to save my mom.

I told you there would be no call, that the call they were on was the protest, that they will claim fearing for their lives and you called me a "smart cookie." And then when that was proven right, you instead tried to paint all the innocent people he ran over as being part of the mob that smashed the vehicle except not one video shows any person actually smashing the vehicle.

There may have been no winning for the police once they decided to put themselves in that position, fair enough, but there was also no losing for you. Anything and everything they said you would latch onto to defend them. It doesn't matter he had no where to be. It doesn't matter that they were wrong about getting shot. It doesn't matter that nearly all of those people were simply chanting.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by schteve_d

The "innocent peaceful protesters" jumping on the hood, or the other ones?

Care to show these protesters jumping on the hood? One guy leans on the car when it comes towards him, another sits on it. I don't see anyone jumping, unless you mean those that the officer hit when he drove away (thank God they ended up on the hood instead of under it).

But yes, I am NOT talking about those who jumped on the hood, if they exist at all, I'm talking about the innocent protesters who were marching, standing, chanting, and doing nothing that would warrant them getting ran over.

But this is my point. One guy sits on a police officer hood, literally half a second later a bunch of peaceful innocent protesters are being ran over, and you don't have an issue with that. Instead you want to blame those peaceful innocent protesters and try to discredit them.

[zamler]

Someone post this video again.

[schteve_d]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Dude, your original rational for defending him driving over a bunch of innocent teens was that he got a call and was trying to save my mom..

This is why I said you were too stupid to argue with; your reading comprehension is atrocious. That was not an argument, it was a "what if". I didn't know, and you didn't know. As more information came out, granted some of it you provided, my argument evolved.

I stand by what I originally said. I have seen a lot of videos of cops doing wrong lately. I have seen a lot of videos of "protesters" doing wrong lately.

The shift that is happening absolutely needs to happen and I support it. We can not have a lawless society in the meantime. It is unfortunate that people are using the needed change for cover for their own agenda or comeuppance, and even profit. It detracts from the real issues.

I have seen videos where the police are clearly wrong, and I have seen videos where the protesters are clearly wrong. This video seems to me like both sides were wrong with the benefit of hindsight, but in the moment, I think I support what the police did, and you yelling at me from your very high horse is not going to change that.

[OMG!WTF!]

Honestly what a dumb question. What should they have done? It's a dumb question because it implies that the only option was to splatter people on the ground in a botched get away attempt. Oling is right. Literally anything other than drive into people. There are two or three squad cars there. There are hundreds more available in the city of Detroit. Wait for more help. Wait until you get the appropriate response in place...tear gas if that's your MO. It's just a loss of temper by the driver. You can see it build and then explode.

[schteve_d]

Originally Posted by zamler

Someone post this video again.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1277430912653950976

[socalwingfan]

That little dude in the white tshirt tearing after the car at the end is fast!!!