Minneapolis PD Suffocate Unarmed Black Man Who Later Dies in Hospital

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by firebug

While they may not all become famous show-runners in Hollywood there are many that could be entirely satisfactory professionals and tradespeople who contribute to society in positive ways.

Totally agree with this, but it's a different topic that is only partly about race. The whole "for profit prison" system would be a serious issue for the USA even if you could wave a magic wand and remove all racism in the country.

The point, though, is that if the argument is "look, we've all committed heinous crimes like theft, assault and drunk driving, and even been caught doing them, and the only reason we don't have a criminal record is because we're white"... just... no.

[Flacker]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I've definitely never assaulted someone, but yeah, youth is filled with trespassing, drinking/drugs, firearms misuse, property damage, etc.

I gotta question what kind of teen years were had that didn't include at least some of those things. I was a nerd too ffs.

Was? I kid.

Agree on all points, and if you are a visible minority a simple trespass will likely get you incarcerated, with the remote possibility of death. The treatment of young non-minority kids in Canada is as soft as it gets. If you can't see white privilege as a white male raised in Canada, a little introspection is in order.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by firebug

Quite the opposite in my opinion... How would society be better served if instead of making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year (and paying taxes on those earnings) for the past 15 years she instead has a criminal record and a minimum wage job?

Perhaps what should be learned is that most of these 'deviants' guilty of trivial offenses could, with proper support, become productive members of society. While they may not all become famous show-runners in Hollywood there are many that could be entirely satisfactory professionals and tradespeople who contribute to society in positive ways.

Hell yeah.

I think the issue here isn't that leniency is shown to youth and members of our society, but that leniency isn't shown to everyone regardless of race or creed or sexual orientation.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

The point, though, is that if the argument is "look, we've all committed heinous crimes like theft, assault and drunk driving, and even been caught doing them, and the only reason we don't have a criminal record is because we're white"... just... no.

If you think that was the point she was making in that series of tweets, you misunderstood her completely. She wasn't saying that she was right to have gotten away more or less scot-free with the crimes she committed as a dumbass teenager. Her point was that she fled from police while guilty of shoplifting and wasn't shot in the back, tased, tackled, beaten, or even put in handcuffs because of her white privilege. There is a sizable percentage of people, including a few posters in this thread, who think the cops are entirely justified in killing African Americans who show even the slightest resistance to the police. When Rayshard Brooks was shot in the back last week despite not posing an immediate threat to the officers on the scene, police apologists said, "Well, he was fleeing from the cops! You can't do that! He got what he deserved for being so stupid!" Do the same people who justify and excuse the killing of Mr. Brooks also think the cops would have been in the right if they had shot a then-teenage Ms. Vernoff in the back when she was running away after shoplifting?

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

The Indians logo is cartoony and ridiculous.

They've stopped using that old logo at some point. I can't even see any merchandise with that logo in their shop.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

If you think that was the point she was making in that series of tweets, you misunderstood her completely.

If you look closely, you'll see that I was actually responding to a post that suggested that this was a story that all white people could tell. Which is not the case. If you have a long history of criminal behaviour that you've just gotten away with, your perspective on that should probably not be that this is something most people have experienced in their youth... it's actually pretty horrific.

Incidentally, I didn't miss the point of her tweet - I take it that the point is that she would have been significantly more likely to have faced prosecution (or even police violence) for any of those offenses had she been a black man. Of course she would have. But if someone tries to make that rather obvious point by telling me that story, my response is going to be "wait, you did what?! Jesus Christ!"

Do the same people who justify and excuse the killing of Mr. Brooks also think the cops would have been in the right if they had shot a then-teenage Ms. Vernoff in the back when she was running away after shoplifting?

Presumably the answer is "yes", unless their opinion was predicated on the fleeing suspect having committed some form of violent crime. As I mentioned in the American Politics thread (in which this debate is apparently still raging), it wasn't forever ago that it was a fairly mainstream opinion that if a cop yells "stop or I'll shoot" at you, and you don't stop, you're going to get shot, and that's to be expected. Obviously that has now changed, and that's great, but the fact that a lot of people still have that intuition isn't a big surprise.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Itse

They've stopped using that old logo at some point. I can't even see any merchandise with that logo in their shop.

Oh interesting. Point proven I guess! I don’t really follow baseball.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Flacker

Don't forget Eskimos!

To their credit (which I hate to do, E=NG), the Eskimos did consult with various Inuit and Indigenous groups regarding their name and the consensus seems to be that it's not offensive: https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/f...s-to-change-it

(Of course not everyone agrees, but that's going to be true no matter what they decide)

Originally Posted by Itse

They've stopped using that old logo at some point. I can't even see any merchandise with that logo in their shop.

Only a couple of years ago. The 2019 season was their first without using the "Chief Wahoo" logo. I believe they phased out its use on their road uniforms a few years earlier, but still wore it at home until the end of the 2018 season.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Do the same people who justify and excuse the killing of Mr. Brooks also think the cops would have been in the right if they had shot a then-teenage Ms. Vernoff in the back when she was running away after shoplifting?

You do realize that those two situations aren't even remotely similar, right, beyond someone running away from the cops.

[OMG!WTF!]

I remember in 2015 there was a cop in SC I think who shot a Black guy in the back while he was running away. He said on the radio that the suspect had tried to take his Taser. A cell phone video proved that he did not and was just running away from a harmless traffic stop. The cop, Michael Slager, got a 20 year sentence but I think it took two trials to convict him. It just struck me as interesting that the guy 5 years ago tried to lie about the Taser as if that would have been a good excuse to shoot a guy in the back.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

The cop, Michael Slager, got a 20 year sentence but I think it took two trials to convict him. It just struck me as interesting that the guy 5 years ago tried to lie about the Taser as if that would have been a good excuse to shoot a guy in the back.

Yeah, a hung jury in the first one. Which is insane. Clear video of a 50 year old running the other way, meters between him and the cop, shot in the back and someone was able to watch that video and go "perfectly reasonable police action".

[Itse]

Originally Posted by getbak

To their credit (which I hate to do, E=NG), the Eskimos did consult with various Inuit and Indigenous groups regarding their name and the consensus seems to be that it's not offensive: https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/f...s-to-change-it

(Of course not everyone agrees, but that's going to be true no matter what they decide)



Only a couple of years ago. The 2019 season was their first without using the "Chief Wahoo" logo. I believe they phased out its use on their road uniforms a few years earlier, but still wore it at home until the end of the 2018 season.

Apparently you can still buy merch with the old logo locally from Cleveland. In any case, it's clearly a move in the right direction. Surprised it wasn't turned into a huge deal by the conservatives.

I think the fact the this seems to have happened relatively quietly is an encouraging sign. It's clearly better for the teams themselves if they can make these changes without becoming the center of political attention.

[MarchHare]

Two days ago, protesters in Albequerque, New Mexico were pulling down a statue of the conquistador Juan de Oñate, the man responsible for the Acoma Massacre of 1599 in which 800 Native Americans, including 300 women and children, were slaughtered by Spanish colonial forces. Stephen Ray Baca, a counter-protester and member of an armed right-wing militia group, fired on the crowd tearing down the statue. One protester was taken to hospital in critical condition but is expected to survive.

CBC story of the incident: https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/statue...ador-1.5613585

Initially, the New Mexico Republican Party released a statement condemning the violence. Then, when the news broke that it was someone on their "side" who was arrested for the shooting, they retracted their earlier condemnation.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by getbak

To their credit (which I hate to do, E=NG), the Eskimos did consult with various Inuit and Indigenous groups regarding their name and the consensus seems to be that it's not offensive: https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/f...s-to-change-it

(Of course not everyone agrees, but that's going to be true no matter what they decide)



Only a couple of years ago. The 2019 season was their first without using the "Chief Wahoo" logo. I believe they phased out its use on their road uniforms a few years earlier, but still wore it at home until the end of the 2018 season.

I was friends with the Esks president at the time and know all the team did to check with Inuit people on the team name. I think if many Inuit people felt the name was racist they’d change it, but it’s a small minority trying to force change.

[MoneyGuy]

Movement to change the name of Penny Lane due to “racist” origin. Yes, that Penny Lane. Good grief.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...rader-1014942/

[MissTeeks]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1273341583438548992

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Movement to change the name of Penny Lane due to “racist” origin. Yes, that Penny Lane. Good grief.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...rader-1014942/

To be fair, it's not really a movement. A few people vandalised the signs.

Both the International Slavery Museum and the Mayor said they're looking into it but don't believe there's actually a connection there, despite James Penny and Liverpool's extensive slavery history.

I don't think we can really call one day of light vandalism "a movement" lol

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by getbak

To their credit (which I hate to do, E=NG), the Eskimos did consult with various Inuit and Indigenous groups regarding their name and the consensus seems to be that it's not offensive: https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/f...s-to-change-it

(Of course not everyone agrees, but that's going to be true no matter what they decide)

Yes, rather than a blanket removal of the mascots/names, why not approach the matter:

A) On a case-by-case basis. The Blackhawks name and logo is very different from the Indians logo, or from the Braves tomahawk chop.

and B) By consulting and polling the groups affected. Because believe it or not, the handwringing of anxious and well-meaning white people does not always represent the views of the typical members of the affected group. In fact, American Indians report the highest rate of agreement (88 per cent) with the statement that "political correctness is a problem in the United States."

[Jiri Hrdina]

I dunno.
If you have to ask a group if your name or logo is racist - i think you already have your answer.
Some of these consultations have already been done in the past. If a minority find it offensive then do you keep the names? If 40% find it offensive is that OK? 30%? 10%?

Again, if you are asking the question, the answer is already obvious IMHO.

The data point about PCness I don't see as being very relevant, because I don't see using racist terms as a team name is an example of "PC".

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by getbak

To their credit (which I hate to do, E=NG), the Eskimos did consult with various Inuit and Indigenous groups regarding their name and the consensus seems to be that it's not offensive: https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/f...s-to-change-it

(Of course not everyone agrees, but that's going to be true no matter what they decide)

I don't see this as being a decision that should be made by consensus.