Ok so we've solved the river mystery, time to turn our attention back to the technical specs of the gold carrying wagons.
See this is what bugs me in the show. They gave the accountants a show but never the engineers.
How is the scorpion made, how do they build their castles. Especially the Vale and the Iron Isles. How thick to the walls have to be to withstand dragon fire. Why doesn't the Great Wall suffer from frost heave.
They needed less time on accounting more time on engineering
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to GGG For This Useful Post:
The one thing that bugged me is they didn't get into an in-depth discussion of how big Cersei's debt is with the Iron Bank, what the interest rate paid on that is, and whether this effects her future credit rating with other Westerosi financial bankers. I mean, they even teased it with the creditor guy lamenting that she was going to pay it back lump sum, but there's so much more detail they could get in to.
There's a theory going around Cersei paying back the Iron Bank will end up being her downfall. From that meeting, the "Bank does not Bet on winners and losers, it instead invests in the chosen victor". The bank is invested in the success of the current regime because interest payments and they say as much by saying the Iron Bank will support the Iron Throne, not specifically Cersei. Paying back the entire debt frees the Iron Bank to make other bets on who sits on that throne as they are no longer tied to the success of the Lannisters.
Possible irony of Lannister always pays debts.
The Following User Says Thank You to FlameOn For This Useful Post:
Keep in mind that the Iron Bank already backed Stannis against Cersei, so it isn't like the debt kept them from taking sides before. Anyone who wins the Iron Throne is still responsible for the debts to the Iron Bank from the previous regime, as Stannis would have been. They weren't really tied to the success of the Lannisters before.
Also, given the philosophy of the Iron Bank to never take sides based on politics, I don't see a scenario where they help topple Cersei just for kicks. Not unless Dany approaches them to borrow money, but it is already established they don't like her all that much for ruining the slave trade.
Cersei has paid back the Iron Bank and is now allowed to borrow again. She's gonna borrow to hire the Golden Company. I think it is far more likely it is the sellswords who turn on her.
Jorah Mormont was a member of the Golden Company after he was exiled from Westeros and before he met Dany. Just sayin'.
See this is what bugs me in the show. They gave the accountants a show but never the engineers.
How is the scorpion made, how do they build their castles. Especially the Vale and the Iron Isles. How thick to the walls have to be to withstand dragon fire. Why doesn't the Great Wall suffer from frost heave.
They needed less time on accounting more time on engineering
The dragon crossbow appears to be the greatest achievement of engineering in all the world (non magic). Those under appreciated souls invented ball bearings so Cersei could have a dragon gun.
Keep in mind that the Iron Bank already backed Stannis against Cersei, so it isn't like the debt kept them from taking sides before. Anyone who wins the Iron Throne is still responsible for the debts to the Iron Bank from the previous regime, as Stannis would have been. They weren't really tied to the success of the Lannisters before.
Also, given the philosophy of the Iron Bank to never take sides based on politics, I don't see a scenario where they help topple Cersei just for kicks. Not unless Dany approaches them to borrow money, but it is already established they don't like her all that much for ruining the slave trade.
Cersei has paid back the Iron Bank and is now allowed to borrow again. She's gonna borrow to hire the Golden Company. I think it is far more likely it is the sellswords who turn on her.
Jorah Mormont was a member of the Golden Company after he was exiled from Westeros and before he met Dany. Just sayin'.
I think this is incorrect. The debts are tied to families. If ether the Lanisters or Dany were to accrue a large debt then die, who would they collect from?
Not sure how you could place a debt on whoever has the throne. The solution would be to start a new throne
I think this is incorrect. The debts are tied to families. If ether the Lanisters or Dany were to accrue a large debt then die, who would they collect from?
Not sure how you could place a debt on whoever has the throne. The solution would be to start a new throne
The debts were crown debts, not Lannister debts. As was referred to earlier in the thread, the crown was hugely in debt right from the start of the series. Otherwise, why would Stannis offer to pay it? If it was Lannister debt only, he would just let them fail on their own, not offer to pay their debt for help from the Iron Bank. His whole deal with the IB was that he'd pay them back and the current rulers (Lannisters) wouldn't.
It is possible that the Lannisters had their own debts with the Iron Bank but I doubt it. Why would they borrow themselves when they could borrow against the crown? There were discussions on the show in S1 where they said that the crown was in debt to the Lannisters too. I believe the crown was also bankrolled by the Tyrell's when they joined the alliance at the end of S2.
The debts absolutely are tied to the Iron Throne. And even if someone tried to start a new throne (which they aren't, Stannis, Dany etc all were after the Iron Throne), I doubt the Iron Bank would care. They would just back whoever would pay them back.
You want to be the new King/Queen? Give us our money. You want to erase all previous debts? We'll just back someone else who will pay us.
Last edited by Cecil Terwilliger; 08-10-2017 at 12:55 PM.
They have a lot of power and influence. If the Iron Throne were to screw them over they would almost certainly impose some sort of embargo, thus crippling their economy. They are quite rich too and would defeat them by funding their enemies and/or hiring their own army of sellswords etc.
I'm sure there are limits to their power and they could theoretically be defeated, but for the purposes of the show I think it is best to assume they are pretty much invincible and can endlessly bankroll the fight against people/countries that don't pay up.
also, is Essos safe from winterpocalypse? I can't remember if the original Long Night was worldwide or just Westeros. it would be funny if the solution were to just sail to Lys and hang out at the pleasure houses for a couple of decades.
also, is Essos safe from winterpocalypse? I can't remember if the original Long Night was worldwide or just Westeros. it would be funny if the solution were to just sail to Lys and hang out at the pleasure houses for a couple of decades.
If it got cold enough you'd be able to walk Wights across the narrow sea. Not sure how much fine motor control the White Walkers have on the Wights. Question is can wights build ships or do complicated tasks other than swing swords and axes?
The debts were crown debts, not Lannister debts. As was referred to earlier in the thread, the crown was hugely in debt right from the start of the series. Otherwise, why would Stannis offer to pay it? If it was Lannister debt only, he would just let them fail on their own, not offer to pay their debt for help from the Iron Bank. His whole deal with the IB was that he'd pay them back and the current rulers (Lannisters) wouldn't.
It is possible that the Lannisters had their own debts with the Iron Bank but I doubt it. Why would they borrow themselves when they could borrow against the crown? There were discussions on the show in S1 where they said that the crown was in debt to the Lannisters too. I believe the crown was also bankrolled by the Tyrell's when they joined the alliance at the end of S2.
The debts absolutely are tied to the Iron Throne. And even if someone tried to start a new throne (which they aren't, Stannis, Dany etc all were after the Iron Throne), I doubt the Iron Bank would care. They would just back whoever would pay them back.
You want to be the new King/Queen? Give us our money. You want to erase all previous debts? We'll just back someone else who will pay us.
No. I think it was pretty explicitly stated that Dany would not be paying back Cersei's debts. Stannis was making a claim to the same line of succession, hence the debts remain. If Dany burns down King's Landing, she's not paying Cersei's debts.
Edit: it makes sense for Stannis to offer to pay as he needed to win the bank's favour.
Are you kidding me? They are two worst actors on the show by a significant amount.
Disagree. Every since Jon Snow was resurrected Kit Harrington has been fantastic. Pulled the hair back, got the Stark cut, and has been conveying strong leadership in the role since.
Two lost moments in episode four I loved. The Theon - Jon "reunion" and Meera Reed saying goodbye to Bran. Pretty beautiful moment in Meera's confusion and anger at what Bran has become. She sacrificed everything for him, a boy she didn't know.
We've seen young Howland Reed in flashbacks, wonder if the old man will ever show up.
No. I think it was pretty explicitly stated that Dany would not be paying back Cersei's debts. Stannis was making a claim to the same line of succession, hence the debts remain. If Dany burns down King's Landing, she's not paying Cersei's debts.
Well that's for Dany to go to war with Iron Bank with after she wins.
I doubt the Iron Bank will just look the other way and say don't worry about it.
But I'm not even sure how Dany is relevant. We are talking about the Iron Bank turning on Cersei. Unless you're saying they will back Dany, only for her to turn around and refuse to pay them the Iron Throne's debts. That'd be really bad business.
Last edited by Cecil Terwilliger; 08-10-2017 at 03:11 PM.
