[Game Takes] Flames 3 Stars 2 (SO)

[Bingo]

Flames 3 Stars 2 (SO)

- Come from behind win
- Hanifin/Hamonic pairing cominant
- Rittich stands tall
- Gaudreau and Monahan score in shoot out

[transplant99]

Sam Bennett Turnover

The guy seems to be a lightning rod for good and bad on a regular basis, so his start to this season should come as no surprise.

Early he needed more ice time and fans clamoured for a move up the roster.

Then he got the opportunity, it didn’t last long and he took two penalties that led to an over time loss.

Last night another silly penalty and a terrible toe drag turnover that created a three on two for the Stars and the game’s first goal.

To me the solution is simple. His identity is an up and down guy that is tough to play against. Simplify the puck game, up the energy and just let the points come. He’s killing himself with some bad decision making.

And that, right there, is the rub with where he can play. Its why he has to be limited to the minutes he plays in a game and why he simply isnt a 2nd liner. His hockey IQ is flat out low.

Same silly junior move that turns the puck over repeatedly, same stupid penalties.

This is year 5 now....and same things he was given a "rookie pass" for even as late as last year. Not good enough to play the PP and certainly unable to help on the pk. He has been given "better line mates" as was the refrain from many. Same results.

So where does he slot in realistically? 10-12 minutes a night at ES and very little more? Thats bordering on 4th line duties.

I honestly dont know what to do with the guy but I do know that less is more with him. Problem is they have little choice in moving him down because anyone else that would take his spot is even worse offensively.

I still wish they would let him watch 2 or 3 games from up top and make him practice his way back into the lineup. Let Czarnik take his spot. It couldnt be any worse, though whoever has to carry Lucic on that line will look worse than they are, but it is what it is and they have to adapt.

[Cheese]

Agree with transplant, Bennett is simply not a second line player and continually shoots himself in the foot with boneheaded plays.He needs to learn how to follow the play and look for garbage goals rather than trying to lead the play.

Thought Brodie looked particularly bad last night, clearly, Gio is his rock.
Watched Lucic pretty close, the play died on his stick multiple times and he almost seemed lost or behind the play on most occasions. When he doesnt bring the edge and tries to be a contributor of any type, he simply seems to flail. Maybe Im being to harsh on the big guy, loved him as a Bruin, but wow he is a shadow of his former self.

[jlh2640]

Huge win, man I was pumped

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by transplant99

And that, right there, is the rub with where he can play. Its why he has to be limited to the minutes he plays in a game and why he simply isnt a 2nd liner. His hockey IQ is flat out low.

Same silly junior move that turns the puck over repeatedly, same stupid penalties.

This is year 5 now....and same things he was given a "rookie pass" for even as late as last year. Not good enough to play the PP and certainly unable to help on the pk. He has been given "better line mates" as was the refrain from many. Same results.

So where does he slot in realistically? 10-12 minutes a night at ES and very little more? Thats bordering on 4th line duties.

I honestly dont know what to do with the guy but I do know that less is more with him. Problem is they have little choice in moving him down because anyone else that would take his spot is even worse offensively.

I still wish they would let him watch 2 or 3 games from up top and make him practice his way back into the lineup. Let Czarnik take his spot. It couldnt be any worse, though whoever has to carry Lucic on that line will look worse than they are, but it is what it is and they have to adapt.

You're a lot more anti-Bennett than I, and we've gone back and forth on this for years so that shouldn't come as a surprise.

As you can see by my game comments I'm certainly not a Bennett apologist, yet nor am I looking to move the guy to the fourth line or just give up on him.

He's a good third liner, probably Calgary's best third liner after Derek Ryan when Ryan gets through his usual cold October. He's an effective player when he stays in his lane, and I think that's the key for the coaching staff. He came in with ideas of moving up the lineup and it hasn't happened. His desire to contribute creates both the need to push the issue and take silly penalties and the toe drags to create individual scoring impact that can keep him with better players.

He has to let up on that. Be the two way guy that's tough to play against. Focus defensively. Don't take penalties. Get pucks deep and get in and get them.

Do that and he will build trust and then maybe just maybe he can be the Frolik guy on a second line that provides honest, accountable minutes.

[Gaskal]

Was very disappointed with Bennett. I hope after this game he stops trying toe drags for a very long time. Potentially.... forever.

But I do think Mangiapane now has a deathgrip on that RW spot with Backlund and Tkachuk. Kind of like how Lindholm planted himself on that 1st line last season and never gave it up.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Was very disappointed with Bennett. I hope after this game he stops trying toe drags for a very long time. Potentially.... forever.

But I do think Mangiapane now has a deathgrip on that RW spot with Backlund and Tkachuk. Kind of like how Lindholm planted himself on that 1st line last season and never gave it up.

speaking of Lindholm: my god, was he fantastic last night. What a great response from him after a fairly underwhelming outing against LA.

[nieuwy-89]

Heard something interesting about Bennett this summer. Apparently he has always been an ultra-competitive guy, a perfectionist. Excelled academically and athletically throughout school. Earned his Top-5 pick pedigree but had many other options coming out of school.

I wonder if this drive for "perfection" is what holds him back. I agree with what is said here - he needs to focus on his strengths, play physically, and go for the greasy goals and points. I wonder if his ego just won't allow him to do it.

[ComixZone]

Bennett has not had a great start to the year, but he was also our best forward in the playoffs and put up 5 pts in 5 games while being a physical force. I think the guy is having trouble adjusting his game that worked so well in the playoffs to the regular season. The refs call games much different in the regular season, and he’s been zonked a couple of times by that (refs also generally love to call stick infractions against him, and let stuff by other players go, but whatever - I’m sure that’s some home bias).

Bennett needs to do a better job of leaving the stick work for the playoffs but bringing the physical edge to the regular season. He played pretty damn well against the Avs, and has struggled with some bad penalties and a bad giveaway - but holy crap people, it was a giveaway. Everyone has them. No need to fly off the rails as some have. I see a lot of people being critical of the penalties as if it has been some huge pain point, but really it wasn’t even a talking point last season.

This team lacks a top six forward, full stop. Bennett, Frolik, Mangiapane are being cycled through and none of them are proving to be good enough (yet). Treliving clearly knows his lack of options at that spot, as he’s been trying to acquire someone all year (2019). Stone, Zucker, Kadri, the rumours of going after Ferland. Bennett is a solid 3rd line player and plays great in the playoffs (which is something we need), the team would be best suited in just fixing the damn problem with that 2nd line and stop trying to play players where they shouldn’t be played.

...I’m actively cheering against New Jersey this year in hopes Hall shakes loose, and go out and snag him and then get him signed long-term.

Thanks as always Bingo. Love the content.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You're a lot more anti-Bennett than I, and we've gone back and forth on this for years so that shouldn't come as a surprise.

As you can see by my game comments I'm certainly not a Bennett apologist, yet nor am I looking to move the guy to the fourth line or just give up on him.

I really wish i didn't come across as "anti-Bennett", because i wish he was what.....he should be/could be. I'd much prefer to be seen as pro-Flame and only wanting more from not just him, but anyone in his spot. Like anyone who is fan of the club. It would solve so many issues with the line-up. As you like to point out....slotting.

I do expect more than he has shown, no question. Spurts of really really good hockey in between lengthy stretches of "meh to awful" just isn't good enough.

I do think its time though that fans, and the club accept the reality of things.

He's a good third liner, probably Calgary's best third liner after Derek Ryan when Ryan gets through his usual cold October.

That means essentially...he is the 8th best F on the club. Which i do not necessarily disagree with, but a spot on the team that could be improved on, especially at the price point.

He's an effective player when he stays in his lane, and I think that's the key for the coaching staff. He came in with ideas of moving up the lineup and it hasn't happened. His desire to contribute creates both the need to push the issue and take silly penalties and the toe drags to create individual scoring impact that can keep him with better players.

He has to let up on that. Be the two way guy that's tough to play against. Focus defensively. Don't take penalties. Get pucks deep and get in and get them.

Do that and he will build trust and then maybe just maybe he can be the Frolik guy on a second line that provides honest, accountable minutes.

I really really hope so. The only question is....how long do you wait for it to happen before trying to find someone who can?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by transplant99

That means essentially...he is the 8th best F on the club. Which i do not necessarily disagree with, but a spot on the team that could be improved on, especially at the price point.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to upgrade a club but you have to keep some of the team rankings at bay and look at it league wide.

Bennett was 1.74 Pts/60 5on5 last year. That's 174th league wide for guys that played 750+ minutes.

174/31 has him as forward 5.6 league wide.

He's a below average 2nd liner or an above average 3rd liner. In Calgary the options have three flawed players for that sixth guy on a team that wants to contend so below average doesn't cut it.

Expiring contract not playing well guy
Taking too many penalties and turning the puck over guy
Small and edgy with no experience guy

So yeah maybe 8th (I'd say 7th) in Calgary but league wide this isn't poor player production wise.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I really wish i didn't come across as "anti-Bennett", because i wish he was what.....he should be/could be. I'd much prefer to be seen as pro-Flame and only wanting more from not just him, but anyone in his spot. Like anyone who is fan of the club. It would solve so many issues with the line-up. As you like to point out....slotting.

I do expect more than he has shown, no question. Spurts of really really good hockey in between lengthy stretches of "meh to awful" just isn't good enough.

I do think its time though that fans, and the club accept the reality of things.




That means essentially...he is the 8th best F on the club. Which i do not necessarily disagree with, but a spot on the team that could be improved on, especially at the price point.



I really really hope so. The only question is....how long do you wait for it to happen before trying to find someone who can?

You give it a look, give it maybe 3-4 shifts.

Then send him back and try again in 10-20 games, give him another few shifts.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

You give it a look, give it maybe 3-4 shifts.

Then send him back and try again in 10-20 games, give him another few shifts.

OK...for how many years?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by transplant99

OK...for how many years?

He’s locked up for 2.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by transplant99

OK...for how many years?

That's the point though isn't it? He's already performing at a below average second liner, higher end third liner. What more does he have to do? I don't see the need to give him a top six spot, but there are plenty of ways to upgrade the roster without having to move on from Sam Bennett.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Was very disappointed with Bennett. I hope after this game he stops trying toe drags for a very long time. Potentially.... forever.

But I do think Mangiapane now has a deathgrip on that RW spot with Backlund and Tkachuk. Kind of like how Lindholm planted himself on that 1st line last season and never gave it up.

God I hate this attitude. It didn't work, everyone saw it but to me this is the be afraid of mistakes mentality that I can't stand. Garbage.

He's pulled it off in other instances and fans love it. The confidence goes up and a player is able to play to his full potential.

I understand the frustration by fans. They want mistake free perfect hockey all the time. It's not reality. The best players make mistakes. Benn turned it over at the blueline which led to a CGY goal too.

I will always support Bennett and him trying to play with confidence and maximizing his potential. I don't really care what detractors have to say.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Bingo

That's the point though isn't it? He's already performing at a below average second liner, higher end third liner. What more does he have to do? I don't see the need to give him a top six spot, but there are plenty of ways to upgrade the roster without having to move on from Sam Bennett.

Not sure I agree with this.

He is one of the few players on this club that likely still has some decent value that isnt a main part of the core.

So if upgrading means making a trade and draft picks are not what you want to part with or the other team needs/wants a forward back, he is certainly at the top of the list.

Maybe no such deal exists, but my guess is that BT wouldn't hesitate to move on from him. He simply is not important to the success of the club and indeed can be a liability at times. 5th season now.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

God I hate this attitude. It didn't work, everyone saw it but to me this is the be afraid of mistakes mentality that I can't stand. Garbage.

He's pulled it off in other instances and fans love it. The confidence goes up and a player is able to play to his full potential.

I understand the frustration by fans. They want mistake free perfect hockey all the time. It's not reality. The best players make mistakes. Benn turned it over at the blueline which led to a CGY goal too.

I will always support Bennett and him trying to play with confidence and maximizing his potential. I don't really care what detractors have to say.

It's the situation too.

Three on two up the ice with his defense pair bagged and looking for a change and he turns it over in the grey zone.

That's either selfish or a poor decision.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

God I hate this attitude. It didn't work, everyone saw it but to me this is the be afraid of mistakes mentality that I can't stand. Garbage.

He's pulled it off in other instances and fans love it. The confidence goes up and a player is able to play to his full potential.

I understand the frustration by fans. They want mistake free perfect hockey all the time. It's not reality. The best players make mistakes. Benn turned it over at the blueline which led to a CGY goal too.

I will always support Bennett and him trying to play with confidence and maximizing his potential. I don't really care what detractors have to say.

He has been trying this move for, literally, 4+ seasons. It doesn't work and almost always ends up with a turnover and the puck going the other way with numbers in favor of the opposition.

Its a junior move that worked for him. He isnt good enough to pull it off against NHL dmen. This much should be obvious by now. Nut his hockey IQ prevents that apparently.

Some tools, empty tool box.

It's weird after seeing the way he was going into and during the playoffs last year. Looked like he had finally figured something out. But nope...right back to the things he cannot do and be successful. I really dont understand it and he is truly a bit of an enigma.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Bingo

It's the situation too.

Three on two up the ice with his defense pair bagged and looking for a change and he turns it over in the grey zone.

That's either selfish or a poor decision.

No doubt. Situational awareness needs to be top of mind. I think this can be taught and he will learn. I'm not a fan of punishing players and diminishing their confidence. I'm sure no one feels worse about it than Bennett. I want to see his line make plays and get feeling good about their game.