Neil Young's quest for better sounding music

[GreenLantern]

I got Neil Young's new book Waging Heavy Peace for my birthday and just a few chapters in he is really upset about the quality of today's music. But not how you would think.. he is referring to the quality of the MP3 files we all download through iTunes or various other websites. Neil preaches that this quality is just horrible compared to Vinyl and he is on a mission to revamp the way that music is heard.. and he isn't alone.

Some articles about his new way of listening to music called 'Pono'.

If Neil Young has his way, the future will be Pono. The 66-year-old singer is planning to take on Apple's iTunes Music Store, launching a "high-resolution" downloads service and releasing his own line of portable players.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012...g-apple-itunes

Neil Young has appeared on the Late Show with David Letterman to promote Pono, a high-quality digital music service that will launch next year.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/28/34...r-prototype-on

Aretha Franklin had never sounded so shocking, Flea decided last year, as "Respect" roared from the speakers of Neil Young's Cadillac Eldorado. Stunned by the song's clarity, the Red Hot Chili Peppers' bassist listened alongside bandmate Anthony Kiedis and producer Rick Rubin while Young showcased the power of Pono, his high-resolution music service designed to confront the compressed audio inferiority that MP3s offer.

The title of Waging Heavy Peace refers to the response that Young gave a friend who questioned whether the singer-songwriter was declaring war on Apple with his new service.

"I have consistently reached out to try to assist Apple with true audio quality, and I have even shared my high-resolution masters with them," Young writes, adding that he traded emails and phone calls with Steve Jobs about Pono before the tech king's death last October. Apple declined to comment on whether a collaborative or competitive relationship with Pono exists.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne...rvice-20120927

[troutman]

He might regret naming it Pono? Too close to Porno?

IMO, I never understood people that prefer vinyl.

[Mtt48]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

Download FLAC, don't download "remastered" stuff, buy vinyl, etc. Good on Neil for actually doing something about this. I'll definitely check out pono, hopefully it's good.

[GreenLantern]

Jim James summed up my thoughts on this perfectly in the Rolling Stones article..

"Neil's premise is cool, and I think it's exciting as a traveling musician," My Morning Jacket frontman Jim James tells Rolling Stone. However, he adds a caveat: "I think that's somewhere that he has to be careful: I've already bought Aretha Franklin's 'Respect' a lot of times. Do I have to buy it again?"

If he could "wage a heavy peace" against the price of online music he will find more success. I don't argue albums are a great price these days digitally, but how many people will want to revamp their entire album line up?

Moving forward however with new releases, this is very exciting.

[zamler]

The recording industry loves the mp3, although they initially tried to kill it off. We have high resolution audio formats now, but they have been a gigantic failure.

[Ozy_Flame]

I don't see why Apple would turn this down. It would incrase sales of their toys with larger hard drives. Not to mention disk space isn't much of a problem anymore, so I bet there are people more than willing to get great sounding audio quality for an additional price.

That said, I'm sure 75% of it has to do with the quality of your speakers too.

[Northendzone]

is it just me or is it somewhat ironic that neil young is on this type of quest - what next, steve buscemi as spokeman for the americna dental association?

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

is it just me or is it somewhat ironic that neil young is on this type of quest - what next, steve buscemi as spokeman for the americna dental association?

You're so wrong, I do not know where to start.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by troutman

IMO, I never understood people that prefer vinyl.

Then you've never listened to the same song on a high end vinyl player vs a digital copy. Bass is richer, tremble is less tinny. As a whole it sounds earthier, more whole. I dunno hard to describe.

I've played Metallica's S&M as one example to friends on vinyl and DVD on the same amp and speakers. The difference is obvious IMO. S&M works great because of the symphony combined with the rock band, easy to hear how full and beautiful it sounds on vinyl.

I've got a decent collection of newer alt rock, some heavy metal and electronica on vinyl. Definitely prefer it. Although I did mix sound for a while for some bands so my ear may be trained to hear the difference more than some people's. I dunno.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Bass is richer, tremble is less tinny. As a whole it sounds earthier, more whole. I dunno hard to describe.
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Definitely prefer it.

Let's call it what it is though - it's more distorted, and that's where we perceive the warmth (fuzziness, for lack of a better term), the richness (harmonics) and depth from. Vinyl does not reproduce the waveform as accurately, but the distortion it imparts to the waveform is appealing to the human ear, much the same as a guitar amp on the cusp of breaking up (or beyond, depending on taste!) is.

I'm not calling vinyl inferior, but it is more distorted (and that's a good thing to many, many people)

[TurnedTheCorner]

iTunes doesn't offer mp3s for download.

[troutman]

^^^

I agree with everyone on the sound of vinyl. It is the convenience of CDs that I prefer.

[Russic]

I applaud him for what he's doing, but I feel he's falling into the trap of thinking that he's in the majority. Audiophiles are out there, many even prefer to get their music in high quality formats like flac, but to assume there's enough out there to float a business model is gutsy.

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by Russic

I applaud him for what he's doing, but I feel he's falling into the trap of thinking that he's in the majority. Audiophiles are out there, many even prefer to get their music in high quality formats like flac, but to assume there's enough out there to float a business model is gutsy.

And he's not the only game out there. There's already a few places offering audiophile quality downloads, but the libraries are almost non-existant. I think he'll have a hard time getting enough selection, not to mention competing with others already in this space.

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by Russic

I applaud him for what he's doing, but I feel he's falling into the trap of thinking that he's in the majority. Audiophiles are out there, many even prefer to get their music in high quality formats like flac, but to assume there's enough out there to float a business model is gutsy.

Funny he mentions this in his book, his manager always gets mad at him because he can't wait for approval and throws his own money at projects he wants to start immediately. Including his electric car that is in the works...

He then goes on to say well why did I make all this money if I can't use it for things I believe in?


Also to add, the article as well as his book both state WMG has already converted their 8,000 album library to high quality.. he does have quite a bit of support in this from major record labels and artists. The difference between him and the competition? The name Neil fricken' Young is attached to this product.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

Let's call it what it is though - it's more distorted, and that's where we perceive the warmth (fuzziness, for lack of a better term), the richness (harmonics) and depth from. Vinyl does not reproduce the waveform as accurately, but the distortion it imparts to the waveform is appealing to the human ear, much the same as a guitar amp on the cusp of breaking up (or beyond, depending on taste!) is.

I'm not calling vinyl inferior, but it is more distorted (and that's a good thing to many, many people)

Not sure I'd agree with that at all. Are you an engineer or something and know this or are you just speculating?

Quality of the needle is a huge determiner in how well it sounds.

CD quality is limited by a sampling rate from what I know of it. Vinyl is not. This is why the difference from what I know of it. I believe it reproduces the waveform MORE accurately.

I don't find vinyl on a good system to be distorted at all. Maybe really old vinyl that has been heated at some point in the sun or w/e.

[troutman]

Grist for the mill:

Are Vinyl Recordings Better than Digital?
Many audio aficionados split into two camps, those supporting modern digital audio, and those supporting vinyl records.

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4303

Vinyl and digital both have good points and bad points. But here's the reason why the entire debate is stupid: whether the music is stored on vinyl or a CD is just not that important a part of the overall system. It's like deciding which of two different cars is best by comparing their spark plug wires. There are many, many variables in the process of playing recorded music that noticeably affect the sound, from the microphones, to the mixing, to the mastering, to the quality of the playback hardware, the amplifier, and (far and away most important) the quality of the speakers and characteristics of the listening room; whether the recording was vinyl or CD is simply not one of these important variables, with apologies to the zealots. Both methods are easily far superior to any differences the human ear might hope to distinguish.

A lot of vinyl proponents say that the difference is subjective, for example that it sounds warmer or just better. Digital proponents tend to point out objective difference, such as the fact that a digital signal can accommodate a higher dynamic range, which is the difference in loudness between the quietest and loudest parts of the recording. But can they actually tell the difference under controlled conditions?

To summarize the science, digital is the superior reproduction format, but analog (particularly vinyl) offers a particular type of sound that some people prefer.

The best argument in favor of vinyl recordings need not be bolstered by unsupported claims about the technical quality of the recording, and that's the physical, tangible experience . . . It's about an experience, not about metrics or tabulated results.


Why Vinyl Sounds Better Than CD, Or Not

http://www.npr.org/2012/02/10/146697...than-cd-or-not

[kermitology]

What's hilarious is someone listening to an album on vinyl, recorded digitally.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by kermitology

What's hilarious is someone listening to an album on vinyl, recorded digitally.

Not really that hilarious. If it was recorded digitally at a higher sampling rate than CD quality allows and transferred to vinyl it is still higher quality than the digital MP3 or CD versions would be from what I understand. The 44.4Khz sampling rate is the issue from what I've read in the past. I'm not a sound engineer so I can't say for sure.

Like I said I can play someone the same album on DVD vs vinyl and I think the difference is noticeable at high volumes on a good system. I have Metallica S&M on both as an example.

[Komskies]

Here's Alan Parson's input on CDs and sound quality:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1393107/al...surround-sound