I meant to respond to this but forgot, but you basically made the point I was trying to make but you did a better job writing it. I don't have an issue with dusty finishes and shenanigans during the weekly shows if it leads to pay off down the line at the big shows. I would say AEW is knocking their "blowoff" matches out of the park for the most part. No one is ever going to bat 1.000, but I've yet to feel let down by an AEW PPV.
All that is to say, they've built up enough good credit with me that I'm willing to see where all of the latest nonsense is going before passing judgement. The reason I'm not willing to extend WWE the same is because they've blown all of that goodwill with their awful booking (e.g. Goldberg going over the fiend, various god-awful PPV finishes, etc.).
AEW has had some awful pay-offs. Brodie Lee as the Exalted one. Leaving the Title on Jericho way too long. What they've done with FTR. Where they went with the whole Hangman story. The first match between Mox and Omega. Their build ups have been good though. I was legit excited for all these stories until they got to the end.
Still better than the WWE's "#### everything up for two years at a time and stumble into a Daniel Bryan/Kofi Kingston/Jericho and Owens type story that catches fire and gets everyone interested despite WWE still trying to #### it up behind the scenes."
Edit- That last one I listed, they actually did manage to meddle enough to #### it up. Jericho has cited it as a big part of why he took the AEW offer.
Lol, sure. There's a reason why my non-wrestling fan friends will watch AEW or NJPW with me but not WWE. WWE is super bland, slow, repetitive, and looks like it's produced for children. I don't like everything AEW is doing, but at least they're not running out Corbin vs. whoever for the 10th week in a row.
To me and anyone who watches AEW looks like backyard wrestling compared to WWE. Zero production values, spot monkeys, and guys with beer bellies going against each other. Then you have the hardcore deathmatch style matches in the nearly every main event, which gets tedious fast. There's some quality talent like MJF and Darby Allin, talent that may make something of themselves one day. Just right now the talent doesn't come close to WWE.
I don't know how you could disagree when many of the top guys (Mox, Rhodes, Rusev) were all in WWE and all generally failed as main event talent. They were given fair chances as well, and couldn't take advantage of it. Just the talent pool is far too great in WWE when compared to the small pond that AEW is. Who would you say in WWE is not deserving of being in the main event or upper mid card?
I have watched every Dynamite and nearly every PPV as well. I'm keeping with it, but it still hasn't grown on me.
Last edited by trackercowe; 12-04-2020 at 03:56 PM.
I disagree with Moxley/Ambrose being a failed main eventer in WWE. The guy was over as hell and made bad gimmicks work. I suspect he would have been even more over in the case of the current "less scripting" world.
I think Rusev/Miro could get over but doesn't want to put that effort in anymore. It's almost like he's jaded with the industry but doesn't know what else to do. He was amazing as that monster heel and it's a shame WWE didn't keep building that and just fed him to Cena.
But other than those two, yeah a lot of these guys are what the WWE said they were. It's a shame they grabbed so many of them instead of just making the focus on guys like Allin, Hangman, Cassidy (who I don't get, but he seems to be over so I guess I'm wrong), MJF etc.
On the topic of Cody: He's a ####tier in-his-prime Goldust who isn't as good in the ring or as charismatic on the mic. Like, Cody couldn't pull off Stardust while Dustin made Goldust one of the most memorable characters in wrestling. He should be a mid-card gate keeper and maybe have transitional runs with a second tier belt. Anything beyond that and he's essentially a modern day Jarrett.
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While I agree with Cody's ceiling, dude has cut some great promos in AEW. His promo against Jericho this past January was very well done. Promo skills are rare, and I do think Cody has them - he's better than 90% of everyone else in the big leagues. He's just overshadowed by guys like Jon Moxley and Eddie Kingston, who can spit magic on that mic.
Also, Ambrose was not a failed main eventer in WWE. He was absolutely white hot at times, and was clearly the "one" from the Shield during their multiple runs. It just so happens that Rollins and Reigns also found their niches.
Looking forward to Wargames this weekend, it should be an outstanding card.
Timothy Thatcher vs Ciampa
Loomis vs Grimes strap match
Ruff vs Gargano vs Priest
Undisputed Era vs Pat Mcafee, Dunne Burch and Lorcan
Team Shotzi vs Team Candice (Toni Storm turned heel last week against Ember Moon)
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To me and anyone who watches AEW looks like backyard wrestling compared to WWE. Zero production values, spot
monkeys, and guys with beer bellies going against each other.
Sounds like you're heavy into aesthetics. Nothing wrong with that, but aesthetics aren't everything to everyone.
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Then you have the hardcore deathmatch style matches in the nearly every main event, which gets tedious fast.
I think you and I have vastly different definitions of "death match."
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There's some quality talent like MJF and Darby Allin, talent that may make something of themselves one day. Just right now the talent doesn't come close to WWE.
Of course not. WWE is a multi-billion dollar company with decades of brand-building. Expecting AEW to compete even within the first five years of their existence is silliness.
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I don't know how you could disagree when many of the top guys (Mox, Rhodes, Rusev) were all in WWE and all generally failed as main event talent. They were given fair chances as well, and couldn't take advantage of it. Just the talent pool is far too great in WWE when compared to the small pond that AEW is.
This is a silly argument. Guys failing to make it to the top in one fed is not necessarily indicative of their talent. A lot of that had to do with WWE's booking. That's like Chris Jericho, Mick Foley, and Steve Austin shouldn't have been given main event cracks in WWF because they couldn't hack it in WCW.
[qutoe]Who would you say in WWE is not deserving of being in the main event or upper mid card?[/quote]
Granted I haven't watched the product in a while, but Goldberg going over The Fiend is one of the most egregious booking decisions in the past five years.
Corbin, Nia, and Lashley are three names that come to mind. All have been booked well over the years despite being about as exciting as a front porch.
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I have watched every Dynamite and nearly every PPV as well. I'm keeping with it, but it still hasn't grown on me.
Again, you can't be everything to everyone. Where AEW seems to be excelling is bringing in new, younger fans. The demos really highlight that. If they can get the next generation of wrestling fans hooked into an alternative product that gives the WWE serious competition, every wrestling fan wins.
Last edited by rubecube; 12-04-2020 at 06:32 PM.
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AEW has had some awful pay-offs. Brodie Lee as the Exalted one.
This one I can definitely agree with. It's been bad for both Brodie and DO. It's telling that Dark Order has been far more captivating since he's been injured.
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Leaving the Title on Jericho way too long.
Disagree with this. They let brew just long enough that when Mox took it off of him, the fans exploded. This wasn't HHH reign of terror stuff. I think it was a 6 month run in total.
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What they've done with FTR.
More specifically? I thought the FTR/Bucks match was great.
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Where they went with the whole Hangman story.
I think this is still ongoing but I agree that they kind of neutered his heat by not letting him continue to play the alcoholic, nihilistic cowboy anymore.
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The first match between Mox and Omega.
I honestly still haven't seen this.
I still think they've gotten more right than wrong, but there are definitely a few other notable misses in there (e.g. pretty much everything Matt Hardy has done)
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Still better than the WWE's "#### everything up for two years at a time and stumble into a Daniel Bryan/Kofi Kingston/Jericho and Owens type story that catches fire and gets everyone interested despite WWE still trying to #### it up behind the scenes."
Edit- That last one I listed, they actually did manage to meddle enough to #### it up. Jericho has cited it as a big part of why he took the AEW offer.
It's not even just that. Yeah, that's frustrating for sure, but it's more just how formulaic everything has become. Basically two people enter a feud and have matches and various tag matches with each other forever until no one cares when the blowoff finally happens.
That to me was the match of the year. I give tons of credit to McAfee, he could have done what most celebrities do when they play wrestler. Do the minimum possible sell on personality, and their work looks terrible because they're terrified of getting hurt. McAfee went all in on this match. That top of the cage dive was nuts. He took every hard move and sold the crap out of it.
To me there's nothing more for UE in NXT, they've grown beyond the brand. I would love to see them come in as a heel stable in the main roster on Smackdown and maybe go against the Hurt Business.
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UE has been at the "done" in nxt stage for a while. I suspect they're a big part of why they haven't moved up. Much like Gargano and Ciampa. They're the nxt draws. They'll pop up now and then, but I think Paul won't let them go up for good and they're happy with that.
UE has been at the "done" in nxt stage for a while. I suspect they're a big part of why they haven't moved up. Much like Gargano and Ciampa. They're the nxt draws. They'll pop up now and then, but I think Paul won't let them go up for good and they're happy with that.
I also think it'd be a bit of a tough fit for them with the current champions and set up. Ideally you'd bring them up and right into the main event scene IMO.
They could be a good long term fued for Drew going into WM actually, although I'm not sure Vince would be able to stomach the size difference between Cole and Drew on the main roster.
I don't think they make sense as a challenger for Reigns. He's really killing it with this heel persona and I don't think it makes sense for him to go against the UE.
But Drew vs Undisputed Era could be a really neat build, and if they were to debut on Raw by attacking Drew that would actually be a fun easter egg back to their original debut with NXT, especially since that fued never really had a payoff outside of an untelevised house show.
It'd also be neat if they'd let Undisputed Era cross brands a bit. Have Cole be the guy moving up to face Drew, but Kyle O'Reilly is a good singles competitor in his own right and maybe he gets a shot at the NXT belt.
But Drew vs Undisputed Era could be a really neat build, and if they were to debut on Raw by attacking Drew that would actually be a fun easter egg back to their original debut with NXT, especially since that fued never really had a payoff outside of an untelevised house show.
A feud with Drew on the main roster would most certainly result in Drew getting the upper hand and not a single one of the UE getting a singles victory in this, which would basically eliminate any credibility the UE would have as a threat. They'd be killed off character-wise in record time.
You know Vince - he'll have the bigger man go over the four "tiny dudes". There is no way an Adam Cole or Kyle O'Reilly wins cleanly against a McIntyre in Vince's booking methods.
I think with UE on the main roster, I wouldn't book them against one guy for now. I'd make them the Vipers nest of smaller superbly technical heels, that swarm everyone. There'd be no political angle, no changing the WWE angle, no taking over the WWE. They just come out and swarm people because they can. And you have wrestler after wrestler challenging them to one on one matches and losing to them. At the same time, with Cole, he just sits there with a #### eating grin and takes it all in.
This isn't retribution, with stupid masks, and a rif on the antifa movement. These are a team of so to speak 4 dynamite kids, high risk butt kickers.
You enact the free bird rule for the tag team titles. You make them surpremly arogant. Sure have Cole going after the main title belts. He's that good, you make him the Shawn Michaels of the group. No apologies, no quarter given or expected.
I'd even have them continuing to appear on NXT I'd have them on smackdown, and Raw.
I'd make them the dominant stable, their first move, they'd crush Retribution, utterly and without mercy leading to a Wrestlemania 4 v 4 cage match or hell in a cell, or even maybe even a War Games match.
They wouldn't be the NWO trying to take over, they don't care about that. They wouldn't be anything like that, they'd just cause havoc because they can and because they know that they're better then anyone else.
We'd scream to see them get their comeuppance. We'd demand it, and it might eventually happen but the victories would be rare. You tell us the rules, and we'll break em. I'd even have them show up on 205 live.
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