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Old 08-22-2019, 12:31 PM   #1241
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Originally Posted by peter12 View Post
Didn't we have Javelin until the early 2000s?

I don't think the Javalin man portable was ever part of our inventory.


It doesn't show as ever being part of the Canadian Inventory, and the list of operator countries is pretty small.
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Old 08-22-2019, 12:42 PM   #1242
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ADATS was a specific system for air defence and anti-tank used only by Canada and Thailand according to Google. Is the concept of multi-role air/tank defence used by other countries or is that concept unique to ADATS?

I don't think so there's a huge theoretical issue with the concept of a combined force missile.


The deployment and utilization of the weapon is different in each case.


For air defense you want it in a high ground area because of the use of the radar system, it has to have a fairly unencumbered view of the sky.


As an anti-tank device you want to use it in ambush, so low down, hidden in tree lines etc.



Also in the modern battlefield where you're facing combined arms threats, it would tend to overwhelm the commander and crew in terms of figuring out priorities. What is your primary mission?



Also at the same time the ADATS was really expensive for the time. I think each vehicle cost about 18 million dollars when Canada bought it. Even as a dedicated anti-air platform, that's really expensive and the missiles were also rally expensive.




When you multi-purpose a weapon, you usually get something that's pretty poor in both roles.
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Old 08-22-2019, 12:43 PM   #1243
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Originally Posted by Baron von Kriterium View Post
Unless it's part of the previously mentioned project, I am not aware of any project.
We haven't had MANPADs since the days of the BLOWPIPE. And even those were only issued to an air defence regiment.
Air defence now = CF-18 and lie on your back and put the MG's bipod on your feet and aim with your legs.

I admit, I lost it when I read that.
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Old 08-22-2019, 12:47 PM   #1244
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Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch View Post
I don't think the Javalin man portable was ever part of our inventory.


It doesn't show as ever being part of the Canadian Inventory, and the list of operator countries is pretty small.
18th Air Defence Regiment in Lethbridge used it.
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Old 08-30-2019, 09:53 AM   #1245
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Airbus pulls out of the competition due to complaints about requirements


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...-complaints-2/


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Airbus was one of four companies that had been expected to bid on the $19-billion contract to build 88 new fighter jets that will replace the Royal Canadian Air Force’s aging CF-18s.
But the company told the government today that it will not enter its Eurofighter Typhoon plane in the competition.
Airbus had previously complained about a change the government made to the process that benefits rival Lockheed Martin’s F-35, loosening a long-standing requirement that companies promise to reinvest in Canada.


Airbus was also concerned about the way the government was handling a requirement that jet-makers prove their planes could plug safely into the U.S. military’s highest-security intelligence systems.

So the Rafale and Typhoon are now out of the process.


This leaves the Gripen JAS-39, the Super Hornet and the F-35. I would expect that the Gripen will eventually be pulled, its a nice plane but doesn't have the capabilities or the ability to interlock into Norad.
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Old 08-30-2019, 09:55 AM   #1246
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Airbus pulls out of the competition due to complaints about requirements


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...-complaints-2/





So the Rafale and Typhoon are now out of the process.


This leaves the Gripen JAS-39, the Super Hornet and the F-35. I would expect that the Gripen will eventually be pulled, its a nice plane but doesn't have the capabilities or the ability to interlock into Norad.
Pick the F35 and be done with it.
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Old 08-30-2019, 09:56 AM   #1247
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I don't have a problem with the Rafale and Typhoon leaving the competition, both are older airframes and 4th generation fighters.


the Rafale and the Typhoon were both at end of life as well as the replacement New Generation Fighter is expected to replace them by 2015.
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Old 08-30-2019, 10:38 AM   #1248
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Typhoon was too expensive and the Rafale was never a good option to be begin with
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Old 08-30-2019, 06:27 PM   #1249
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I might have mentioned this before?
Our fast air people want the F-35...
Nothing else.
It's unequivocal.
So how do we make this happen Mr. "I will never buy that airplane?"
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Old 08-30-2019, 07:22 PM   #1250
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Originally Posted by Bindair Dundat View Post
I might have mentioned this before?
Our fast air people want the F-35...
Nothing else.
It's unequivocal.
So how do we make this happen Mr. "I will never buy that airplane?"

At this point, and I'm not as much of an expert as others here.


The Super Hornet is a nice jet, and its per plane cost has dropped. However its a 4th generation fighter, its been fairly expensive in other sales. It doesn't have the same level of stealth and sensors and even abilities as the F-35.


The Gripen JAS-39 is a nice little low cost gen 4 fighter. while it has a nice little combination of sensors and capabilities, its far behind the F-35 in terms of its sensor suite and stealth. The question of interoperability within NORAD is going to come into play again.



The F-35 is the most advanced fighter in the contest. Its costs are dropping sharply. They're not that much more then the Super Hornet and JAS-39 (about $10 to $15 million more per plane). They will have a longer life span in the modern digital war space and have more upgradibility.



To me if they buy the Gripen or the Super Hornet, its political more then what's best for the Military period. We are going to have a small airforce of 88 planes. If you're going to do that you buy at the leading edge of what's coming warfare wise and not 10 years behind it.
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Old 09-05-2019, 09:53 PM   #1251
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Canadian military tests new camouflage uniform as replacement for iconic pattern in use since early 2000s

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...ce-early-2000s
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Old 09-06-2019, 06:17 AM   #1252
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I'm glad it's a Canadian design. Wasn't too thrilled when I read they were looking at multicam a while back.
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Old 09-06-2019, 07:45 AM   #1253
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Canadian military tests new camouflage uniform as replacement for iconic pattern in use since early 2000s

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...ce-early-2000s
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iconic camouflage


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The army says a final decision on the new camouflage is expected no later than 2022. A full roll-out of a new camouflage uniform would take place in 2027.
ahahahahahahahahhahahahaha
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Old 09-06-2019, 01:28 PM   #1254
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The Canadian Military: Someday
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Old 09-06-2019, 02:02 PM   #1255
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Old 09-06-2019, 03:32 PM   #1256
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I apologize for my ignorance, but there are two things that have always bothered me about the F-35. The first is that in order to retrofit them for use in the Arctic, it seems that the stealth component would be compromised, and the Arctic could be where many future flights lead us.

The second is the value put on stealth technology at all. Isn't this really the first domino to fall in terms of aging an aircraft? Once stealth is taken out of the equation, how well does the F-35 stand up to the competition?
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Old 09-06-2019, 04:17 PM   #1257
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^ on top of that, Quantum radar isnt too far off. I think stealth capability is a bit of an oversell for future aircraft. Right now it's good but the game is going to change sooner than later.
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Old 09-06-2019, 05:15 PM   #1258
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I apologize for my ignorance, but there are two things that have always bothered me about the F-35. The first is that in order to retrofit them for use in the Arctic, it seems that the stealth component would be compromised, and the Arctic could be where many future flights lead us.

The second is the value put on stealth technology at all. Isn't this really the first domino to fall in terms of aging an aircraft? Once stealth is taken out of the equation, how well does the F-35 stand up to the competition?

I haven't seen anything that the stealth component would be compromised in arctic conditions, I've seen that they had a battery failure warning that can be triggered on landing.



If you can point out the Stealth compromise that would be great.


And maybe stealth gets compromised as they age, but remember that the F-35 is still at the start of its deployment cycle and is designed for its ability to upgrade requirements.


And the Quantum radar vs stealth is still pretty hypothetical, but you have to remember that the F-35 is designed as an air borne hacker that carries its own countermeasures and jamming suites, and those are very upgradable.
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Old 09-06-2019, 05:26 PM   #1259
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The stealth aspect isn't the selling feature of the F-35. It's preeminent capability is its cross-functionality with other fleets of F-35s, essentially creating a massive network of air-to-air weapons platforms that together would rapidly dominate airspace.
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Old 09-06-2019, 07:50 PM   #1260
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The stealth aspect isn't the selling feature of the F-35. It's preeminent capability is its cross-functionality with other fleets of F-35s, essentially creating a massive network of air-to-air weapons platforms that together would rapidly dominate airspace.
And you are probably the only other guy here that understands just how far beyond the current this goes.
The RCAF already knows...they've been briefed and updated constantly.
Civilians opining on this stuff (and I am one of these...) are largely ignorant with regards to the quantum leap that the systems in the F-35 represent.
This has Nothing Whatsoever to do with the "stealth" aspect. That is an entirely separate issue.
This sensor-fusion technology makes all current aircraft obsolete...Current F-22 avionics and tech included; these are (after all) a full generation behind at the moment.
One thing I know for sure is that our guys (and gals) would rather be sitting in F-35's than either of the remaining two options.
And this should be the deciding factor....
These are the people that may be called upon to take themselves into harms way.
To deny them the tools required to best prosecute missions mandated by the Government (where have we seen this before?) would be an abomination...and a significant betrayal of trust on the part of the Confederation itself.
Yes...Canada is indeed a Confederation.
I'm so gol-danged frustrated about this whole thing =rants like this.
But I digress...
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