Calgary Flames General Manager Ranking - #1

[looooob]

Ok its possible (probable) I have screwed some of this up, but given that we have just finished the all time Flames team ranking I figured I would list them per the GM that acquired them (* please correct any errors, I also realize in isolation this means little as it doesn't account for tenure of GM, recency of new acquistions, costs acquired to get said players, other screwups etc)


Fletcher Fletcher Coates
Feaster Fletcher Fletcher
Tre Feaster Fletcher
Sutter Fletcher Fletcher
Fletcher Fletcher


Fletcher Sutter
Fletcher Coates
Fletcher Fletcher
Sutter


Sutter
Fletcher
Fletcher

[Steve Bozek]

It’s been mentioned earlier, but I think Fletcher’s willingness to look at free agent U.S. college players as potential NHLers set him apart from (and above) other GMs of his era. Most other GMs felt U.S. college players were people who weren’t good enough to play Jr A, and therefore not worth considering. Macoun and Otto were his best “free” acquisitions.

He was also willing to draft players from the USSR (Makarov), assuming eventually they their government might allow them to leave the USSR without having to defect. And he negotiated with the USSR to get them to release a player to join the ‘88-‘89 Flames, which helped open the way for more

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Sutter as a GM had all of great, good, bad and terrible.

The way it all finished has always had me wondering if there was something going on behind the scenes that we didn't know about ... pressure to win from ownership? An owner demanding certain players traded ... honestly don't know.

His Kiprusoff trade was great ... Langkow trade solid. Somehow landed Stralman out of dealing Primeau and then just gave him away. His work at the deadline in 2004 was on point in adding more grit and making the team harder to play against.

But those two days in early 2010 were borderline insanity.

The Stralman deal is an example of just a head shaker.
Along with virtually giving away a quality player like Lydman.

Is that stuff that just eroded the asset base over time.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm going with Coates for 2nd place. He was stuck in the middle of a power struggle in an era where the Flames were one of the most undesirable destinations in the league unable to keep or sign key players. Despite that he made some key acquisitions the set the table for the 2004 cup run.

He also struck out on almost every draft. Despite having some pretty decent draft spots.

[kyuss275]

How does Jay Feaster get 2 votes?

[1qqaaz]

Other than the obvious Fletcher, I would probably vote Al Coates. He acquired assets that would form the backbone of the team all the way to the Feaster era. He even acquired Marc Savard and Martin St. Louis, only for Button to lose those pieces.


The 1995 to 2000 drafting was weak, but not nearly as weak as the period from 2005 to 2010.
The 2000 draft produced 3 NHLers, but I believe Craig Button was GM at that time.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by flamesgod

He also struck out on almost every draft. Despite having some pretty decent draft spots.

Stillman was pretty good as was Morris but as I said in my initial post there were major power struggles at that time and that included scouting and drafting. He really did have a good eye for talent.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The Stralman deal is an example of just a head shaker.
Along with virtually giving away a quality player like Lydman.

Is that stuff that just eroded the asset base over time.

The Stralman trade made perfect sense at the time, he'd just been acquired and rumors were that he if didn't make the big club he was going to go back to Europe. For a 23 year old undersized defenseman whom at the time was suspect defensively, and proved nothing offensively to essentially demand a roster spot, not many playoff teams would have kept him around. The trade never worked out, but blaming Sutter for that is like blaming the GM at the time for letting St. Louis walk.

[Sylvanfan]

Honestly no one deserves second place. Bad General Managers is a huge reason why the team has eroded from Fletchers team and never really been relevant since.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Sutter was a fantastic coach. Terrible GM.

Disagree. He was a pretty ballsy and effective GM until he got stuck in the 'win now' mode the Flames ownership group kept pushing after it was apparent the team had passed it's best before date. The drafting was certainly an issue as time dragged on, but he's definitely in the top 3 when you consider the results.

http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/...l_Sutter/165/3

There are some massive wins and very few outright losses in the 2003 - 2008 time frame: Kipper, Warrener/Reinprecht, Nilson, Conroy, Langkow, Cammalleri, Tanguay, Huselius to name a few. Flames fans should not forget the fact that he was a big reason the team had such a great run all those years.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Honestly no one deserves second place. Bad General Managers is a huge reason why the team has eroded from Fletchers team and never really been relevant since.

Owners that put their fingers in their ears for too long was the driving force behind why GMs were unable to pursue the correct course of action.

[BigT112]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

How does Jay Feaster get 2 votes?

Because he's the best GM not in the NHL right now and will be the best draft pick from this draft in the next 10 years.

[Freeway]

I'm just gonna sing the praises of Al Coates, who took over a team depleted by economic pressures and poor hockey ops decisions and did a good job getting value for the team's core players. The Fleury and Nieuwendyk trades were crucial and handled well.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Disagree. He was a pretty ballsy and effective GM until he got stuck in the 'win now' mode the Flames ownership group kept pushing after it was apparent the team had passed it's best before date. The drafting was certainly an issue as time dragged on, but he's definitely in the top 3 when you consider the results.

http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/...l_Sutter/165/3

There are some massive wins and very few outright losses in the 2003 - 2008 time frame: Kipper, Warrener/Reinprecht, Nilson, Conroy, Langkow, Cammalleri, Tanguay, Huselius to name a few. Flames fans should not forget the fact that he was a big reason the team had such a great run all those years.

Looking back at that and I can't help but wonder what if when it came to Mike LeClerc, he looked like he was just starting to fit in with the team when he suffered his career ending eye injury. I thought he was a really good pick-up for a playoff run.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Jury is still out on Tre- I am not sure we should include him in these rankings as his body of work is not complete nor really advanced enough to determine success.

?

Treliving is already third on the list in days on the job behind Fletcher and Darryl Sutter.

If we can't have him on the list then it's a two man list.

Since Treliving was given a multi year extension in October of 2019, he's pretty likely to be here to pass Sutter as well.

He's active, so you can and should change your mind based on moves still to come, he's certainly amassed enough time on the job to be in the conversation.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

He traded for Dave Gagner to center Iginla and mentor him which was a genius trade as both players topped 20 goals and Iginla had a nice 50 point rookie season. As hard as he tried to keep Gagner he couldn't match the $2.3 million/season offer from the Panthers which was such a shame because without Gagner centering him Iginla regressed in that 2nd season. I don't think any Flames GM ever had to work under those types of circumstances of having to dumpster dive to build a roster and despite that he managed to trade for, draft, or sign the following players;

Iginla
D. Gagner
Regehr
Stillman
M. Savard
A. Cassels
D. Morris
M. Nylander
J.S. Giguere
V. Bure
M. St. Louis

Little doubt to me if he had the wealth of resources that Sutter and Treliving did he could have done better.

Plus if he would have nailed one of those reclamation project players he would have been on to something ....

Aaron Gavey, Jason Wiemer, Hnat Dominechelli, Jason Botterill ....

[Hanna Sniper]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The draft record under him is awful and created an asset deficit for the organization that it is still digging out from.
Can't ignore that.

Fram a lack of AHL team and armature scouts. Talk about starting from zero

A lot of what is said about Sutter's drafting isn't exactly echoed from his scout scout. I honestly believe that it takes a special case for a head scout to listen to the opinion of the right people at the right time.

A great example is what is going on in Tampa right now, with the change of power, there now enters a new level of politics and with an organization that picked everything right now has the chance to listen to the wrong person. It is very fascinating to watch

To blame the GM for a drafting abilities is over simplifying and ignoring the root issue. So many misinformation of Darryl stereotypes

I can understand the knocking of Sutter for trading the 2nds, but hey he had the best goalie in the world and best player in the game. He turned this origination around and brought a level of respect back to the Flaming C, made Calgary an attractive destination and separated us from the team up north

That was a hell of a change is a small period of time

[bubbsy]

Sutter had the flames as a playoff and contending team for five straight seasons. A feat not accomplished by the franchise in decades, nor has it been achieved by any gm since.

The kipper move, huselius for nothing, langkow for role/depth players, cammalleri, tanguay, Giordano,bouwmeester. He was a ballsy gm, who definitely lost it by the end, and who didn't really emphasize drafting and development enough (though, Brodie, backlund, ferland, are examples of that trend improving during his tenure).

Sutter made me a flames fan again, at a point where I was basically done with the team (it was basically a joke at the point he took over).

He's not the best, cup winner definitely deserves that, but he gets my 2nd vote.

Brad treliving would likely be 4th on my list. I think, like many current day GMS, he has tremendous GM speak and comes across as a sharp hockey guy, but he's been here long enough, took over a young rebuilding team, and I am not all that impressed on the evolution of the roster, prospect pool, annual results and playoff wins.

[Strange Brew]

This is obviously Fletcher.

I will likely be voting Sutter next. His moves in his first few years were some some of the best by a Flames GM and he deserves a ton of credit for assembling the team that made it to the Finals. So he has accomplished more than any other team GM besides Fletcher. Then it all went to hell.

Now the idea that the current team is suffering because of moves made by a GM whose last transaction for the team was 10 years ago is not something I can agree with. I guess if Sutter had drafted more 5 to 10 year olds our prospect pipeline would look better.

Meanwhile the current GM gives away draft picks like candy on Halloween.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

This is obviously Fletcher.

I will likely be voting Sutter next. His moves in his first few years were some some of the best by a Flames GM and he deserves a ton of credit for assembling the team that made it to the Finals. So he has accomplished more than any other team GM besides Fletcher. Then it all went to hell.

Now the idea that the current team is suffering because of moves made by a GM whose last transaction for the team was 10 years ago is not something I can agree with. I guess if Sutter had drafted more 5 to 10 year olds our prospect pipeline would look better.

Meanwhile the current GM gives away draft picks like candy on Halloween.

Organizational health is based on the asset base. And through Sutter's years the drafting creating an asset deficit, that the team has struggled with since. That's why there is a constant borrowing from the future, by trading picks and what not.

But its not on him alone.

In the mid to late 80s the team had a terrific asset base - that they chipped away at by giving players away from little to no return.

Sutter's issue was largely putrid drafting, which I'm not prepared to give him a pass on. I get the mid 20s picks are not sure things but in consecutive years he drafted Chucko, Pelech, Irving, Backlund, Nemisz, and Tom all in the range of 23-26. Hitting on 1/6 simply isn't good enough. That kills you over time.

Like others, for me #2 goes to Coates, as in my view, he did tremendous work while operating under huge disadvantages. The "Al Coates Something Now Something Later" trades are favorites of mine.