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Old 06-12-2019, 01:00 PM   #1021
Erick Estrada
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Originally Posted by The Cobra View Post
But Muzzin carried a longer term,, so was worth more, assuming they are equal.
Well their deals expire on the same day but yes the Leafs did get Muzzin for an extra couple of months. Still at the worst Brodie should fetch a 1st round pick.
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:06 PM   #1022
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Some people are really committed to jettisoning Gaudreau and/or Monahan...
I would do Gaudreau to Philly for Patrick, Provorov, and their 2019 1st round pick.
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:20 PM   #1023
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Well their deals expire on the same day but yes the Leafs did get Muzzin for an extra couple of months. Still at the worst Brodie should fetch a 1st round pick.
I already have $20 on this with another poster, but I will also dance a jig if this happens. Hell, I will do the limbo if the Flames get a high 2nd.
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:46 PM   #1024
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I would do Gaudreau to Philly for Patrick, Provorov, and their 2019 1st round pick.
I wouldnít as that deal makes virtually no sense for the Flames at all. We finished second overall but lost in the first round so letís move our best player for a package based on futures? The best piece is a young Dman which as an organization they are already rich?
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:52 PM   #1025
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I wouldn’t as that deal makes virtually no sense for the Flames at all. We finished second overall but lost in the first round so let’s move our best player for a package based on futures? The best piece is a young Dman which as an organization they are already rich?
Comes down to some tough questions that I dearly hope they are asking
- Does the organization think they can win with Johnny
- Does the organization believe he will re-sign

Based on those answers you then have to determine
- When is the best time to trade him if he's not re-signing. The sooner you do it, the more value you get
- What is the best way to use that chip. Do you address the need for a better #1 centre? Re-build your overall asset base? Or something else?

I'm not sold on Patrick at all but that's a pretty compelling package of assets overall. I agree it doesn't really solve the needs of the Flames though, at least near-term.
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:58 PM   #1026
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I wouldnít as that deal makes virtually no sense for the Flames at all. We finished second overall but lost in the first round so letís move our best player for a package based on futures? The best piece is a young Dman which as an organization they are already rich?
Oh. I don't actually think the Flames should trade Gaudreau. My idea was simply to suggest a package the Flyers would never agree to as a way of saying "aint gonna happen."

I definitely don't think the Flames should trade Monahan or Gaudreau.

However, I would do that deal.

Treliving could then sign Provorov long-term at an affordable cap hit, which would give the Flames a beautiful LR, LR top-4 for the future of Valimaki - Andersson, Hanifin - Provorov.

Patrick gives the Flames a centerman of the future because, after Monahan, the Flames don't have any great young centers in the organization. They have Monahan, Backlund, Ryan, and Jankowski. If Backlund starts to go downhill now that he's 30, I think the Flames need more at centre.

Finally, I think the Flames would be able to get a great young prospect at 11.

Then, the Flames trade Frolik and 26 OA for Zucker to fill the gap that had been left in the top 6.
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:05 PM   #1027
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Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina View Post
Comes down to some tough questions that I dearly hope they are asking
- Does the organization think they can win with Johnny
- Does the organization believe he will re-sign

Based on those answers you then have to determine
- When is the best time to trade him if he's not re-signing. The sooner you do it, the more value you get
- What is the best way to use that chip. Do you address the need for a better #1 centre? Re-build your overall asset base? Or something else?

I'm not sold on Patrick at all but that's a pretty compelling package of assets overall. I agree it doesn't really solve the needs of the Flames though, at least near-term.
To me if the organization decides to move on from Gaudreau they need to look at an immediate replacement and not a packages of players and picks from a non-playoff team. So I would prefer a Braydon Point type 1 for 1 deal if they move Johnny.

To take the Flyers deal to me is basically entering another rebuild and if that is the case Gio, Backlund, and other 30+ guys should also be shipped out.
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:09 PM   #1028
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Oh. I don't actually think the Flames should trade Gaudreau. My idea was simply to suggest a package the Flyers would never agree to as a way of saying "aint gonna happen."

I definitely don't think the Flames should trade Monahan or Gaudreau.

However, I would do that deal.

Treliving could then sign Provorov long-term at an affordable cap hit, which would give the Flames a beautiful LR, LR top-4 for the future of Valimaki - Andersson, Hanifin - Provorov.

Patrick gives the Flames a centerman of the future because, after Monahan, the Flames don't have any great young centers in the organization. They have Monahan, Backlund, Ryan, and Jankowski. If Backlund starts to go downhill now that he's 30, I think the Flames need more at centre.

Finally, I think the Flames would be able to get a great young prospect at 11.

Then, the Flames trade Frolik and 26 OA for Zucker to fill the gap that had been left in the top 6.
I think this comes back to my thoughts that Nolan Patrick is not even remotely enticing as a player to target if we are sending out Monahan/Gaudreau.

I don’t think your offer is unrealistic at all (saying it is too steep of price for the Flyers to pay). If the Flames were looking st a rebuild I would absolutely target a deal like this but if they are looking to move Gaudreau I would target one of the expensive RFA forwards on the market like Marner or Point.
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:12 PM   #1029
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To me if the organization decides to move on from Gaudreau they need to look at an immediate replacement and not a packages of players and picks from a non-playoff team. So I would prefer a Braydon Point type 1 for 1 deal if they move Johnny.

To take the Flyers deal to me is basically entering another rebuild and if that is the case Gio, Backlund, and other 30+ guys should also be shipped out.
Yeah, but when you get such great value, you can always re-purpose some of these or other assets in a "win now" deal. So, you theoretically wind up in at least the same place "now" while having more assets in the organization overall...
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:16 PM   #1030
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Treliving could then sign Provorov long-term at an affordable cap hit, which would give the Flames a beautiful LR, LR top-4 for the future of Valimaki - Andersson, Hanifin - Provorov.
And then we lose one of them to Seattle.
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:21 PM   #1031
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I could see a Saad for Brodie deal and then Chicago go all in to get Panarin again.
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:26 PM   #1032
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This is horrible, and not in a "you have to give to get" way. Think about it logically.

- Drai is only an all star with McDavid, can't do anything away from him, so you're buying high
- Drai could semi-replicate his big numbers with Gaudreau….except you gave Gaudreau to Edmonton
- Gaudreau would likely blow by his career high with McDavid


So basically you'd bump Gaudreau up to a 110 point player on EDM, knock Drai down to an 80 point player on the Flames and we take back the far worse albatross contract???

Good lord, man.
I think Gaudreau helps McDavid in his prime more than Leon does.

At their height, you'd probably be looking at a 130 point McDavid / 120 point Gaudreau, with the most assists in the league.

Luckily, Edmonton will never get to enjoy that because our GM isn't batshirt insane.
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:33 PM   #1033
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I think Gaudreau helps McDavid in his prime more than Leon does.

At their height, you'd probably be looking at a 130 point McDavid / 120 point Gaudreau, with the most assists in the league.

Luckily, Edmonton will never get to enjoy that because our GM isn't batshirt insane.
Some players are incompatible because they both want to have the puck all the time. A pure shooter type is very compatible with either.
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:43 PM   #1034
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Mike Bales, Carolina's goalie coach, has resigned.

...he certainly seems like he'd be an upgrade, and there's the natural connection with Peters.

Friedman believes he is on Buffalo's radar.

Mike Bales with the Flames would make me very very happy


Edit: It is 100% not happening

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Old 06-12-2019, 02:46 PM   #1035
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Some people are really committed to jettisoning Gaudreau and/or Monahan...
It's not a question of wanting to trade them, but they are both likely available for the right price. But it would only be for core players coming back.
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:55 PM   #1036
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Some people are thinking ahead to Gaudreau heading back east as a UFA, as all indications point to. Sometimes itís ok to trade guys who donít figure in your long term plans for a significant return and avoid getting another Iginla/Bouwmeester package of trash.

And Monahan is the only player with enough value to bring back an upgrade on himself as a #1 centre.
Please provide all these indications that Gaudreau wants to leave the Flames.
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Old 06-12-2019, 03:45 PM   #1037
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Please provide all these indications that Gaudreau wants to leave the Flames.
Uh duh! Everyone in the league plays in their hometown!
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Old 06-12-2019, 03:57 PM   #1038
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Yup, I think I am taking a break from this thread for my own sanity because things are hitting a new level of crazy in here. Hurry up 2019/20 season!
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Please provide all these indications that Gaudreau wants to leave the Flames.
This is a weird way of taking a break.
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Old 06-12-2019, 04:16 PM   #1039
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I would do Gaudreau to Philly for Patrick, Provorov, and their 2019 1st round pick.
No, just no.
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Old 06-12-2019, 04:29 PM   #1040
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Maybe itís me but I feel Nolan Patrick is the classic high floor, low ceiling prospect. If heís a centerpiece in a trade that sees one of the most talented Flames players ever going the other way I feel heís going to be a all-time whipping boy for this fan base.

The Flames just won the Western Conference for the first time in over 30 years based largely on the play of Gaudreau so I feel some fans are seriously taking this guy for granted. The question to me is not if you can win a cup with Gaudreau and more if you can surround Gaudreau with the supporting cast to win a cup and Iím not sure this team has the 1st line center that can.

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