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Old 05-26-2019, 06:58 PM   #61
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I think so too.

I'd also like Treliving to come out of the draft with more picks than what he went in with.
I do understand the impulse to make sweeping changes too, considering how badly the Flames performed in the playoffs and having the 1st in play is a good way to add a nice piece.
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Old 05-26-2019, 07:26 PM   #62
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Am I the only one that wants to keep the 1st? In a cap world, you need players who can go and make entry-level salaries.
You are far from the only one who feels this way.
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Old 05-26-2019, 07:40 PM   #63
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I do understand the impulse to make sweeping changes too, considering how badly the Flames performed in the playoffs and having the 1st in play is a good way to add a nice piece.
Plus, if you look at the cup finals, both are teams that made a lot of changes within the past year.

The Bruins made two bid adds during the season.
The Blues made a ton of signings.

I don't made trading away the first. I think the Flames can get a good player there, but after the 2013 draft, I'm a little scared of drafting in that area.
If the Flames are in a win-now mode, it may be nice to see if they can add a piece who is still on the right side of 30.
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Old 05-26-2019, 08:53 PM   #64
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Not a chance. Monahan > Trocheck
How is what Iíd do ďNot a chanceĒ? Iíd trade Monahan for Trocheck.
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Old 05-26-2019, 09:19 PM   #65
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Not a chance. Monahan > Trocheck
By what measure?

Trochek does pretty much everything Monahan does offensively, but does it leading the second line. Defensively, heís pretty impressive (easily better, not a question).

Not a knock against Monahan. Trochek is just awesome. Better contract too.
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Old 05-26-2019, 09:31 PM   #66
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Not a knock against Monahan. Trochek is just awesome. Better contract too.
This is where I am on this too. Trochek plays a physical game too. Really good player.

Iím still a huge Monahan fan, but Trochek has better hands and is more physical. Monahan has a better shot (than most). I would want Monahan & Trochek as 1-2 personally.
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Old 05-26-2019, 10:04 PM   #67
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Not knocking Trocheck but there is no way he’s on Monahans level in terms of value.

Monahan is really getting underrated here due to a poor playoffs.
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Old 05-26-2019, 10:20 PM   #68
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Not knocking Trocheck but there is no way heís on Monahans level in terms of value.

Monahan is really getting underrated here due to a poor playoffs.
Again: by what measure?

If anything, Trochek is getting underrated because he plays for Florida.

I can only speak for myself as someone who feels the same way about Monahan today as I did 6 months ago (for clarification: pretty darn good), but Trochek has emerged as a star. Heís absolutely at Monahanís level.

Iíd be interested in hearing a case for why Monahan is better or more value, because I honestly donít see it.
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Old 05-26-2019, 10:26 PM   #69
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Again: by what measure?

If anything, Trochek is getting underrated because he plays for Florida.

I can only speak for myself as someone who feels the same way about Monahan today as I did 6 months ago (for clarification: pretty darn good), but Trochek has emerged as a star. Heís absolutely at Monahanís level.

Iíd be interested in hearing a case for why Monahan is better or more value, because I honestly donít see it.
Trocheck is better defensively and physically. Heís essentially a better version of Backlund, and I think if we were to explore a Trocheck trade itís a Backlund + situation.

Monahan is 2 years younger, apart from one of the last 5 seasons has outscored Trocheck immensely, is on a terrific contract, and has true elite potential.

Trocheck May be an elite two way player, but if Monahan goes for Trocheck we donít really have a scoring center and now we have Trocheck, Backlund and Ryan down the middle who are all two way guys but donít have the scoring touch of Monahan.

I understand Trocheck doesnít play with Gaudreau but Monahan has always been elite for his age and was a ppg this past season. Trocheck doesnít have playoff experience either, and Monahan was terrific in the 2017 playoffs.

Iím not trying to discredit Trocheck at all, heís a very solid player, but he is not Sean Monahan, who is very underrated on this board (all of a sudden, I can guarantee you had this discussion happened before the playoffs, no one wouldíve traded Monahan for Trocheck).
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Old 05-26-2019, 10:34 PM   #70
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IMO they should be looking to add Trocheck to the existing core. They could really use Monahan and Trocheck, not Monahan or.
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Old 05-26-2019, 10:36 PM   #71
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Yeah, exactly what I was thinking. The idea of replacing Monahan with Trocheck is poor, the idea of adding Trocheck is perfect, if undoable.
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Old 05-27-2019, 12:18 AM   #72
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I’d say Monahan is overrated here because points.
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Old 05-27-2019, 12:39 AM   #73
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Iíd say Monahan is overrated here because points.


and Iíd say Monahan is underrated here because of overcritical fandom.

Heís a damn good player.

The big question is can he be the #1 centre on a championship team, and I think the prevailing thought is (correctly) no. I think Backlund is also mis-slotted. We need to get better down the middle.

#1 New Guy
#2 Monahan
#3 Backlund
#4 Ryan

...tough cookie to crack. Monahan also needs to be challenged more. Heís still developing, and for years now Backlund has propped things up and almost given the coaches an easy excuse to not force Monahan into tougher spots. Our centre depth was exposed against Mackinnon in a 5 game series. Backlund failed at his defensive role spectacularly, and Monahan failed at his offensive role just as soundly.

Treliving has some hard work to do this summer.
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Old 05-27-2019, 05:06 AM   #74
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All of this Trocheck discussion is moot because there's no way Florida moves him. He's the energy driver of the team. They suffered greatly without him last year, even with Barkov's abilities and new found leadership.

Trocheck will be in Florida for as long as he wants to be, and I don't hear any rumors of him wanting out, so I doubt he could even be had.

This reminds me of earlier discussions on getting Sean Couturier. I always asked myself, "why would Philly ever get rid of him?"
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Old 05-27-2019, 05:42 AM   #75
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Let’s trade Monahan for Trochek, an established play off clutch performer. That’s what we need.

Wait....

He’s never been to the playoffs. And he’s smaller. Scores less.

You can’t teach scoring. Monahan reminds me a lot of a young Modano or Yzerman, even a young Crosby. Not necessarily the talent level, but neither was a complete player until a few seasons. It wasn’t until they started playing a 200” competitive game that they started winning, and I can see Monahan on this trajectory. He’s already trending towards the highest scoring centre in flames uniform. He’ll get stronger, he’ll get better in all zones, he’ll get some grit to his game - he’s adapted enough to score 30g in the NHL.
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Old 05-27-2019, 06:49 AM   #76
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I am missing why the Panthers would want to trade a good player on value contract Trochek? Are people just assuming that to sign Panarin and Bobrovsky that Trochek is the odd man out?
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Old 05-27-2019, 07:00 AM   #77
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I am missing why the Panthers would want to trade a good player on value contract Trochek? Are people just assuming that to sign Panarin and Bobrovsky that Trochek is the odd man out?
Basically, yes.

But yeah you don’t move this player off your team.
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Old 05-27-2019, 07:34 AM   #78
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Letís trade Monahan for Trochek, an established play off clutch performer. Thatís what we need.

Wait....

Heís never been to the playoffs. And heís smaller. Scores less.

You canít teach scoring. Monahan reminds me a lot of a young Modano or Yzerman, even a young Crosby. Not necessarily the talent level, but neither was a complete player until a few seasons. It wasnít until they started playing a 200Ē competitive game that they started winning, and I can see Monahan on this trajectory. Heís already trending towards the highest scoring centre in flames uniform. Heíll get stronger, heíll get better in all zones, heíll get some grit to his game - heís adapted enough to score 30g in the NHL.
Contrary to popular belief, you can teach scoring just as well as you can teach a complete game. Iím not sure what makes you think Monahan has anywhere close to a Yzermen/Modano/Crosby trajectory. I donít think you can teach the kind of mentality and drive that all three of those guys have.

Itís ok. Monahan doesnít need to be that to be well respected and sought after in this league. Weíre lucky to have drafted him regardless. We should just be a little more honest with ourselves over what he is, which is a really great scoring centre, likely suited better in a 1-2 punch scenario down the middle.

This applies to Trochek as well, but we should also be aware that his best offensive seasons are probably behind him. By 25, almost every player you can think of has already put in their best offensive seasons. Crosby, Ovi, Yzerman, Modano, etc etc. Guys that already play a pretty solid 200 ft game usually donít experience it as harshly (or, get better), but guys like Monahan with a lot of work to do to adjust his game as he starts slowing down is probably looking at a steady drop off.

I just wish I had the confidence you have that a strong, gritty, 200 ft Monahan is right around the corner. Heís more Krejci than he is Crosby.

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I am missing why the Panthers would want to trade a good player on value contract Trochek? Are people just assuming that to sign Panarin and Bobrovsky that Trochek is the odd man out?
To be fair, I was just talking about it because someone mentioned the comparison. I think thereís zero chance they trade Trochek, and if they did, it would never be for a lateral and more expensive player like Monahan.
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Old 05-27-2019, 08:09 AM   #79
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The big question is can he be the #1 centre on a championship team, and I think the prevailing thought is (correctly) no. I think Backlund is also mis-slotted. We need to get better down the middle.

#1 New Guy
#2 Monahan
#3 Backlund
#4 Ryan
I agree with this, and Trocheck is not the missing 1C. However, if Monahan takes one more step forward and is a truly legit 1C, Trocheck is a great 2C.
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Old 05-27-2019, 08:16 AM   #80
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Flames are not upgrading on Monahan this summer unless:

1. They trade him for a player 7-10 years older and more expensive (Getzlaf/Malkin type)
2. They trade Gaudreau for the upgrade
3. Trade Tkachuk for the upgrade
4. Lindholm proves to be the better center and pushes Monahan down the lineup.


I think all 4 options are unlikely. I think the most realistic option is hoping Monahan learned some tough lessons in the second half of the season/playoffs and is motivated to improve in the areas he is lacking (skating, physicality).
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