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Old 06-10-2019, 02:17 PM   #1621
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Meh.

I'm not convinced that Warren really wants to be President.

She can get much more done, and will have much more power, as a Senator than as a President.

My hunch is that she is running in order to get her ideas out there and to move the Democratic party in her preferred direction. But I don't think that she really wants to win.
Oh yeah, I agree and she has been enormously effective in this role.
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Old 06-10-2019, 11:00 PM   #1622
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Yeah, I'm not sure why people have to jump in with the constant "oh they're (gay, asian, a woman, etc) so they can't win."



America just came off a 2-term black president and a female candidate who was altogether terrible and still secured the majority of the popular vote.



I think we can give it a rest with the "sorry, not an old white man" rhetoric.
I think it's a fair opinion, but we can agree to disagree.
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Old 06-11-2019, 07:44 AM   #1623
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Oh yeah, I agree and she has been enormously effective in this role.
Warren is effectively putting policy at the top of the Democratic nomination process, rather than being the most staunchly anti-Trump, or riding Obama’s coattails. It’s nice to see.

As with anybody with a gazillion policy proposals, I have qualms with many, but the approach is laudable. I would definitely be supporting her.
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Old 06-11-2019, 08:09 AM   #1624
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Anyone who wants good policy should be 100% behind Warren.
Just taking a glance at her proposals so far and a lot of what she is proposing is your standard Democrat policy fare. The areas where I guess you could say that she stands out are more radical in my view than "good policy". What exactly do you like about her?
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Old 06-11-2019, 08:26 AM   #1625
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Yeah, I'm not sure why people have to jump in with the constant "oh they're (gay, asian, a woman, etc) so they can't win."

America just came off a 2-term black president and a female candidate who was altogether terrible and still secured the majority of the popular vote.

I think we can give it a rest with the "sorry, not an old white man" rhetoric.

Securing the majority of the popular vote is as useful as the Flames placing first in the West in the regular season
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:20 AM   #1626
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Just taking a glance at her proposals so far and a lot of what she is proposing is your standard Democrat policy fare. The areas where I guess you could say that she stands out are more radical in my view than "good policy". What exactly do you like about her?
What she has been saying has become standard Democrat fair. I think that backs the argument that she has a lot of power as a senator in setting policy direction and shifting the party left.
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:55 AM   #1627
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You guys are drifting into the Dem nominee thread territory.

Back on subject.

Fat Donny has been basically live tweeting what he sees on faux, all morning.

Best President ever, maga, he's like, smart and stuff.
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:05 AM   #1628
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What she has been saying has become standard Democrat fair. I think that backs the argument that she has a lot of power as a senator in setting policy direction and shifting the party left.
I disagree. I think it is Bernie Sanders that is currently setting the Democratic policy direction. Warren is just trying to out-flank Sanders with some of her nonsensical populist ideas. If the goal is to defeat Donald Trump, then the Democrats should just run a centrist (preferably one that is not 100 years old) and he won't stand a chance. Not sure why the Dems have to make things so hard on themselves...
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Old 06-11-2019, 11:43 AM   #1629
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I disagree. I think it is Bernie Sanders that is currently setting the Democratic policy direction. Warren is just trying to out-flank Sanders with some of her nonsensical populist ideas. If the goal is to defeat Donald Trump, then the Democrats should just run a centrist (preferably one that is not 100 years old) and he won't stand a chance. Not sure why the Dems have to make things so hard on themselves...
Because running a republican to appease republicans shouldn’t be the Democrat goal?
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Old 06-11-2019, 11:49 AM   #1630
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If the goal is to defeat Donald Trump, then the Democrats should just run a centrist (preferably one that is not 100 years old) and he won't stand a chance.
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Because running a republican to appease republicans shouldn’t be the Democrat goal?
Ah yes. "Centrist" and "Republican" are synonyms. What a reasonable take you have there.

Seriously, is anyone going to be surprised when Trump wins, given the state of his opposition?
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Old 06-11-2019, 12:01 PM   #1631
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Ah yes. "Centrist" and "Republican" are synonyms. What a reasonable take you have there.

Seriously, is anyone going to be surprised when Trump wins, given the state of his opposition?
...I...I’m his opposition? Oh god and I didn’t even wear my good pants.

And yes unless you’re choosing to be intentionally obtuse (you would never!) you’d get that the constant act that conservatives have of telling liberals to run more to the right instead of trying to get their own party to move more to the left or as it might be considered, gasp, centre is a tactic to continue moving the entire political spectrum to the right. It’s your basic golden mean fallacy but you knew that. “Centrists” are not actually in the centre, when people say they want “centrists” they want Eisenhower Republicans which are surprisingly not Democrats. Wacky I know.
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Old 06-11-2019, 12:04 PM   #1632
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Yeah, I'm not sure why people have to jump in with the constant "oh they're (gay, asian, a woman, etc) so they can't win."

America just came off a 2-term black president and a female candidate who was altogether terrible and still secured the majority of the popular vote.

I think we can give it a rest with the "sorry, not an old white man" rhetoric.
It's not like the can't win, but it's definitely harder and people of colour or different gender are still at a disadvantage. Obama pretty much had to make sure he was boy scout clean in order to win. Can you imagine if Obama he had even 1/10th the baggage that Trump has? He would have been run out of the running in a heartbeat.
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Old 06-11-2019, 12:07 PM   #1633
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I can always count on people like Resalien to say horrifying awful things that rob me of any hope for the future of civilization.
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And yes unless you’re choosing to be intentionally obtuse (you would never!) you’d get that the constant act that conservatives have of telling liberals to run more to the right instead of trying to get their own party to move more to the left or as it might be considered, gasp, centre is a tactic to continue moving the entire political spectrum to the right.
This is idiocy. If this is taken as gospel in Democratic circles at this point then the battle is already lost. Christ, the Republican party has gone more or less completely off the deep end, and even they at least have some holdover centrist Republicans who want to reclaim the soul of the party. If the desire of moderates to see the objectively more-sane party demonstrate some sanity is looked at as a conspiracy being peddled by veiled "conservatives", well, #### it, let's just blow the whole thing up and start killing each other in the streets.
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It’s your basic golden mean fallacy but you knew that. “Centrists” are not actually in the centre
The fact that you can type this with a straight face demonstrates exactly who you are, politically. Just a cancer on the left that is rapidly destroying any prospect of an end to the current political lunacy.
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Old 06-11-2019, 12:17 PM   #1634
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^ I get what you're saying, but if they run Warren (even as VP on the ticket) they are basically guaranteeing four more years for Trump.

Maybe it is better in the long run if they stick to their values but I'm not too thrilled at the prospect of more Trump.
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Old 06-11-2019, 12:43 PM   #1635
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It's not like the can't win, but it's definitely harder and people of colour or different gender are still at a disadvantage. Obama pretty much had to make sure he was boy scout clean in order to win. Can you imagine if Obama he had even 1/10th the baggage that Trump has? He would have been run out of the running in a heartbeat.
Well Romney was a literal boy scout and it didn't help him. Outside of Fox News, the media was in the bag for Obama. Obama was also able to galvanize the black vote, which showed up for him in record numbers, something that Hillary Clinton was not able to do.
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Old 06-11-2019, 12:56 PM   #1636
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45 presidents...44 straight white men


Seems like a safer bet if you wanna take down Trump.
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Old 06-11-2019, 01:21 PM   #1637
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In the WTF has Congress really still done nothing of worth for the 9/11 first responders topic, watch this whole thing.

These people should be ashamed, especially those who didn't show up, of course, its mostly Republicans who bring up 9/11 every chance they get, didn't have the nerve to sit in front of these heroes.

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Old 06-11-2019, 02:09 PM   #1638
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...I...I’m his opposition? Oh god and I didn’t even wear my good pants.

And yes unless you’re choosing to be intentionally obtuse (you would never!) you’d get that the constant act that conservatives have of telling liberals to run more to the right instead of trying to get their own party to move more to the left or as it might be considered, gasp, centre is a tactic to continue moving the entire political spectrum to the right. It’s your basic golden mean fallacy but you knew that. “Centrists” are not actually in the centre, when people say they want “centrists” they want Eisenhower Republicans which are surprisingly not Democrats. Wacky I know.
I would kill for an Eisenhower republican. I cannot stress this enough, we need normalcy not idealism right now. If a centrist pseudo-republican wins and the country can heal itself, then yeah, I'm voting for that.

And yes, the country has shifted quite a bit to the right overall, but here's a thought...baby steps. You can't drag the entire country to the far left in one election. But you can certainly alienate a significant part of the ill-informed electorate by running a far left candidate, and then hand the election to Trump as incumbents are always tough to beat no matter how bad they are.

Seriously, go listen to Eisenhower speak and then get back to me. If you seriously don't consider that a candidate worth voting for, then I feel like you are letting ideology get in the way of pragmatism.
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Old 06-11-2019, 02:56 PM   #1639
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I would kill for an Eisenhower republican. I cannot stress this enough, we need normalcy not idealism right now. If a centrist pseudo-republican wins and the country can heal itself, then yeah, I'm voting for that.

And yes, the country has shifted quite a bit to the right overall, but here's a thought...baby steps. You can't drag the entire country to the far left in one election. But you can certainly alienate a significant part of the ill-informed electorate by running a far left candidate, and then hand the election to Trump as incumbents are always tough to beat no matter how bad they are.

Seriously, go listen to Eisenhower speak and then get back to me. If you seriously don't consider that a candidate worth voting for, then I feel like you are letting ideology get in the way of pragmatism.
Really? Even Republicans are all for blowing out the budget now. Virtually none of them are willing to tackle entitlement reform, and the national debt continues to balloon under them with no end in sight. I'm not sure what exactly you mean by shifting to the right (I am sure there are some examples) but if we are talking entitlements and fiscal conservatism, I think things are moving decidedly left.
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Old 06-11-2019, 03:03 PM   #1640
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Really? Even Republicans are all for blowing out the budget now. Virtually none of them are willing to tackle entitlement reform, and the national debt continues to balloon under them with no end in sight. I'm not sure what exactly you mean by shifting to the right (I am sure there are some examples) but if we are talking entitlements and fiscal conservatism, I think things are moving decidedly left.
Tax policy and abortion rights are two big ones that spring to mind.
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