Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 06-12-2019, 09:09 PM   #1061
TheScorpion
First round-bust
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Canada
Exp:
Default

IMO Hischier has a good chance of becoming the best player in that trade.

I might do it if I'm Calgary
__________________
Milan Lucic = underrated
TheScorpion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 09:21 PM   #1062
JTech780
Crash and Bang Winger
 
JTech780's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra View Post
I doubt there is a GM in the business who would prefer Monny over the 20 year old Hischier.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
This is a joke right? Because it made me laugh pretty hard.

I have been hard on Monahan, but this a troll level post right here.

You are trying to tell me that GM's wouldn't prefer a 6'3", 30 goal center who is 24 years old to a under size center who has had seasons of 52 and 47 points. Don't get me wrong I like Hischier but he's a 2nd line center on just about every other team in the league.
JTech780 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to JTech780 For This Useful Post:
Old 06-12-2019, 11:16 PM   #1063
keenan87
Franchise Player
 
keenan87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Flames Town
Exp:
Default

Do people think Kylington is enough of a sweetner to move Neal?

Came up with this randomly:

Gaudreau-Kadri-Tkachuk
Nyquist-Monahan-Lindholm
Bennett-Backlund-Mangiapane
Dube-Ryan-Czarnik
Hathaway

Giordano-Andersson
Hamonic-Hanifin
Valimaki-Engelland
Fantenberg

Rittich
Talbot

Brodie+Jankowski for Kadri
Kylington+Neal for nothing
Frolik for 3rd
Stone for 7th

Last edited by keenan87; 06-12-2019 at 11:20 PM.
keenan87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 11:41 PM   #1064
Harry Lime
First Line Centre
 
Harry Lime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Exp:
Default

Honestly, Brodie for Kapanen and call it a day. Re sign Hathaway and pick up Reaves for a dollar as a nuclear deterrent.

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Kapanen
Tkachuk-Monahan-Bennett
Mangiapane-Backlund-Neal
Dube-Ryan-Hathaway
Reaves

Giordano-Andersson
Hanifin-Hamonic
Valimaki-Stone
Kylington

Rittich
Cheap Reclamation

Frolik to Detroit 'cause they need players and he's a Wings kind of guy.
Czarnik back to Boston.

The only guy on his off wing is Bennett. Big bounce backs for Neal and Stone. Kylington learns to play both right and left sides. I would love to see what Tkachuk can do with a sniper like Monahan instead of Backlund in the middle.

Speed added with Kapanen, bigger role for Mangiapane and promotion of Dube.

As much as we all like big splashes.
__________________
"Writer's block is a fancy term made up by whiners so they can have an excuse to drink alcohol." - Steve Martin
Harry Lime is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Harry Lime For This Useful Post:
Old 06-12-2019, 11:50 PM   #1065
neo45
First Line Centre
 
neo45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan87 View Post
Do people think Kylington is enough of a sweetner to move Neal?

Came up with this randomly:

Gaudreau-Kadri-Tkachuk
Nyquist-Monahan-Lindholm
Bennett-Backlund-Mangiapane
Dube-Ryan-Czarnik
Hathaway

Giordano-Andersson
Hamonic-Hanifin
Valimaki-Engelland
Fantenberg

Rittich
Talbot

Brodie+Jankowski for Kadri
Kylington+Neal for nothing
Frolik for 3rd
Stone for 7th
I would just move Neal for a slightly better bad contract then buy that contract out before sending out a “sweetener” with him. That’s throwing good money after bad

1-1.5 million of dead cap and keep Kylington >>>> 5.75M for whatever Neal was doing on the ice last year
neo45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2019, 01:28 AM   #1066
TheScorpion
First round-bust
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Canada
Exp:
Default

Where is the Engelland idea coming from? Much rather just keep Stone than go after a 35+ retread with way worse metrics.
__________________
Milan Lucic = underrated
TheScorpion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2019, 03:37 AM   #1067
savemedrzaius
First Line Centre
 
savemedrzaius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lime View Post
Honestly, Brodie for Kapanen and call it a day. Re sign Hathaway and pick up Reaves for a dollar as a nuclear deterrent.

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Kapanen
Tkachuk-Monahan-Bennett
Mangiapane-Backlund-Neal
Dube-Ryan-Hathaway
Reaves

Giordano-Andersson
Hanifin-Hamonic
Valimaki-Stone
Kylington

Rittich
Cheap Reclamation

Frolik to Detroit 'cause they need players and he's a Wings kind of guy.
Czarnik back to Boston.

The only guy on his off wing is Bennett. Big bounce backs for Neal and Stone. Kylington learns to play both right and left sides. I would love to see what Tkachuk can do with a sniper like Monahan instead of Backlund in the middle.

Speed added with Kapanen, bigger role for Mangiapane and promotion of Dube.

As much as we all like big splashes.
Honestly no. One year of Brodie for a Top 6 forward who kills penalties. Yah,honestly, no.

The Leafs would rather just re-sign Gardiner. He's better than Brodie and would cost 0 assets.
savemedrzaius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2019, 04:26 AM   #1068
The Cobra
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTech780 View Post
This is a joke right? Because it made me laugh pretty hard.



I have been hard on Monahan, but this a troll level post right here.



You are trying to tell me that GM's wouldn't prefer a 6'3", 30 goal center who is 24 years old to a under size center who has had seasons of 52 and 47 points. Don't get me wrong I like Hischier but he's a 2nd line center on just about every other team in the league.


For the record, Hischierís 99 points in his first 2 years is better than Monny had. Monny didnít have more than 64 points in a season until his 6th season.

Iím not sure Monnyís size is all that relevant when his only skill he really uses effectively is being Johnnyís triggerman.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The Cobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2019, 05:18 AM   #1069
Nelson
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Exp:
Default

I don’t think the Flames should trade any of their best players. Generally, when you trade those types of players, you lose the trade. There are exceptions, so unless someone blows your socks off with a crazy offer you can’t refuse, you don’t trade Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, etc. One reason for this is that players can be maligned one moment, and they can be heroes the next.
Nelson is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Nelson For This Useful Post:
Old 06-13-2019, 07:18 AM   #1070
Monahammer
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Monahammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: St. Albert (Calgary-Jr.)
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra View Post
For the record, Hischierís 99 points in his first 2 years is better than Monny had. Monny didnít have more than 64 points in a season until his 6th season.

Iím not sure Monnyís size is all that relevant when his only skill he really uses effectively is being Johnnyís triggerman.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Huge undersell and #### narrative. Monahan is not just Johnny's trigger man. When one suffers so does the other, much more symbiotic than you are leading on.
Monahammer is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Monahammer For This Useful Post:
Old 06-13-2019, 08:19 AM   #1071
JTech780
Crash and Bang Winger
 
JTech780's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra View Post
For the record, Hischierís 99 points in his first 2 years is better than Monny had. Monny didnít have more than 64 points in a season until his 6th season.

Iím not sure Monnyís size is all that relevant when his only skill he really uses effectively is being Johnnyís triggerman.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Wow you really had to work hard to massage the stats to your favour here, but you conveniently left out a few key details.

Sure Hischier had 99 points in his first 2 seasons,.and Monahan only had 96, but Monahan went from 34 points to 62 in his first two seasons, Hischier went from 52 to 47.

I don't see the significance of Monahan not putting up more than 64 points in a season till his 6th season is when Hischier hasn't put up more than 52 points in a season. Monahan has only put up fewer than 58 points in a season once, his rookie year.

Monahan has also scored 22 or more goals every year he has been in the league.

The only thing that Hischier has on Monahan at this point is potential, the thing is Monahan has already reached his potential and is a 30 goal, point per game center, there aren't that many of those players in the league. Hischier may get there, but he may not, that makes him a risk.
JTech780 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JTech780 For This Useful Post:
Old 06-13-2019, 08:20 AM   #1072
gamesaver
Scoring Winger
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTech780 View Post
This is a joke right? Because it made me laugh pretty hard.

I have been hard on Monahan, but this a troll level post right here.

You are trying to tell me that GM's wouldn't prefer a 6'3", 30 goal center who is 24 years old to a under size center who has had seasons of 52 and 47 points. Don't get me wrong I like Hischier but he's a 2nd line center on just about every other team in the league.
Take Gaudreau away from Monahan and see how he does for a season. His price will go downhill. Injury prone number one C who always disappears when things get serious vs. a high skill 1st overall wonder kid. Monahan being 6ī3 doesn't really matter because he plays a soft game as he did in the first round, when he was supposed to use this size to create space for Johnny.
gamesaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2019, 08:36 AM   #1073
JTech780
Crash and Bang Winger
 
JTech780's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamesaver View Post
Take Gaudreau away from Monahan and see how he does for a season. His price will go downhill. Injury prone number one C who always disappears when things get serious vs. a high skill 1st overall wonder kid. Monahan being 6ī3 doesn't really matter because he plays a soft game as he did in the first round, when he was supposed to use this size to create space for Johnny.
Injury prone? He has played 74 or more games every season in the NHL, Hischier is just coming off a season where he was only able to play 69 games.

I love how everyone seems to forget that Monahan had 4 goals and 5 points in 4 games in the previous trip to the playoffs, and had 7 goals and 11 points in his first 15 playoff games. Did he have a rough playoffs this year, sure, but his history shows that he does show up when it matters most. Hischier on the other hand has 1 point in 5 playoff games.

Listen I was guilty of this recency bias as well, but when get past the emotion of the 1st round and actually take a look at the facts, there just aren't that many centers in this league that can do what Monahan can do, and as of right now Hischier isn't on Monahan's level and he isn't anywhere near a sure thing to get to that level.
JTech780 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2019, 08:51 AM   #1074
The Cobra
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTech780 View Post
Wow you really had to work hard to massage the stats to your favour here, but you conveniently left out a few key details.

Sure Hischier had 99 points in his first 2 seasons,.and Monahan only had 96, but Monahan went from 34 points to 62 in his first two seasons, Hischier went from 52 to 47.

I don't see the significance of Monahan not putting up more than 64 points in a season till his 6th season is when Hischier hasn't put up more than 52 points in a season. Monahan has only put up fewer than 58 points in a season once, his rookie year.

Monahan has also scored 22 or more goals every year he has been in the league.

The only thing that Hischier has on Monahan at this point is potential, the thing is Monahan has already reached his potential and is a 30 goal, point per game center, there aren't that many of those players in the league. Hischier may get there, but he may not, that makes him a risk.
I didn't massage the stats, I just stated them.

Monny is 4 years older than Hischer, so of course he's produced more. I was only pointing out the comparative points that Hischer had in his first two seasons.

Hischer points dropped last year because Hall was injured for a large part of the season. I can't imagine what Monny would produce if Johnny wasn't around.

Monny is a decent player, I was just reacting to the suggestion that Monny's trade value was lights years ahead of Hischer's. It's not, and it's actually debatable as to who would have a higher trade value.


The trade I would envision, based on the original poster's trade would be Hall (signed) and Hischer for Johnny, Monny and Neal. Neal gets includes to balance the cap and take into account that NJ would be getting the more established player in Monny and the fact that Hall would only be signing an extension as part of the trade.
The Cobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2019, 09:12 AM   #1075
JTech780
Crash and Bang Winger
 
JTech780's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra View Post
I didn't massage the stats, I just stated them.

Monny is 4 years older than Hischer, so of course he's produced more. I was only pointing out the comparative points that Hischer had in his first two seasons.

Hischer points dropped last year because Hall was injured for a large part of the season. I can't imagine what Monny would produce if Johnny wasn't around.

Monny is a decent player, I was just reacting to the suggestion that Monny's trade value was lights years ahead of Hischer's. It's not, and it's actually debatable as to who would have a higher trade value.


The trade I would envision, based on the original poster's trade would be Hall (signed) and Hischer for Johnny, Monny and Neal. Neal gets includes to balance the cap and take into account that NJ would be getting the more established player in Monny and the fact that Hall would only be signing an extension as part of the trade.
Ok fair, I just don't see how that trade makes us better, it's not like Hall and Hischier have a better history of playoff performance than Gaudreau and Monahan, they don't even have a better history of regular season performances. Even if it meant getting rid of Neal I still wouldn't pull the trigger on that deal.
JTech780 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2019, 09:22 AM   #1076
The Cobra
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTech780 View Post
Ok fair, I just don't see how that trade makes us better, it's not like Hall and Hischier have a better history of playoff performance than Gaudreau and Monahan, they don't even have a better history of regular season performances. Even if it meant getting rid of Neal I still wouldn't pull the trigger on that deal.
I'm not saying I would either. Calgary only would if they (1) thought that Johnny and Monny are not the answer, and we don't know the answer to that; (2) they very much like Hischer's potential, and see him as a long term core player; (3) like Hall very much; and (4) likely think that Johnny is heading east in 3 years.

Linholm produced little offensively until paired with Johnny. Young players often don't until put in an offensive position to succeed. Considering how much Hisher has produced so far on a very poor team at a very young age, it wouldn't be shocking to see an offensive explosion one day if utilized similar to Monny. To simply suggest he's miles better in trade value because he scores more current points is the same analysis most posters made to determine that Calgary got screwed in the Hamilton/Carolina trade and that Trev should be fired.
The Cobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2019, 09:30 AM   #1077
442scotty
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Exp:
Default

Can’t wait till the draft is done so we can be done with all of this and look forward to training camp ! No free agent frenzy for the flames this year after Treliving got burned AGAIN last year!
442scotty is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2019, 09:47 AM   #1078
The Cobra
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 442scotty View Post
Canít wait till the draft is done so we can be done with all of this and look forward to training camp ! No free agent frenzy for the flames this year after Treliving got burned AGAIN last year!
I'm not sure why you think trades can't be accomplished after the draft.
The Cobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2019, 09:52 AM   #1079
Oling_Roachinen
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTech780 View Post
Gaudreau is better than Hall by a fair bit.
No he's not. He's less injury-prone, he has a longer contract, so he probably has more value.

But peak-Hall is at least every bit as good as Gaudreau is. I don't think Gaudreau has ever been as good as 2017-2018 Hall. That's no slight against Gaudreau, Hall was the MVP that year.
Oling_Roachinen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2019, 10:11 AM   #1080
gamesaver
Scoring Winger
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTech780 View Post
Injury prone? He has played 74 or more games every season in the NHL, Hischier is just coming off a season where he was only able to play 69 games.

I love how everyone seems to forget that Monahan had 4 goals and 5 points in 4 games in the previous trip to the playoffs, and had 7 goals and 11 points in his first 15 playoff games. Did he have a rough playoffs this year, sure, but his history shows that he does show up when it matters most. Hischier on the other hand has 1 point in 5 playoff games.

Listen I was guilty of this recency bias as well, but when get past the emotion of the 1st round and actually take a look at the facts, there just aren't that many centers in this league that can do what Monahan can do, and as of right now Hischier isn't on Monahan's level and he isn't anywhere near a sure thing to get to that level.
I think Monahan in tough in a sense that he plays through pain and injuries, which is admirable. But it's my suspicion his wrist injuries are serious and affecting his scoring ability badly as the season progresses and he is getting banged up. And it's hard to tell what other centers with first line potential could do instead of him if given the chance to play with Gaudreau. Look at William Karlsson for example, with decent line mates he went from a 20 point player to a point per game player. But this discussion is pointless anyway because Devils will never trade Hischier. That's not how you rebuild.

The Cobra: "Hischer points dropped last year because Hall was injured for a large part of the season. I can't imagine what Monny would produce if Johnny wasn't around." if you consider he played only 69 games and most of them without Hall and still managed to score only 5 points less than the previous season, you can also say that he actually improved.

Last edited by gamesaver; 06-13-2019 at 10:16 AM. Reason: adding response to poster
gamesaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:36 AM.

Calgary Flames
2017-18




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2016